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sergio
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 Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Alps (2005) |
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On 31 Ott, 13:51, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
Jean Claude Killy had
not yet
| Quote: | worked his magic on the town that today is one of the most garish ski
towns, an insult to nature and the beautiful mountains.
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As insulting as Cervnia is to Valtournanche.
Sergio
Pisa |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Alps (2005) |
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sergio wrote
| Quote: | Instead, there is a place I like so much close to Briancon
on the valley of La Clairee, just west of Col de l'Echelle:
Nevache!
Yes from the city of Briancon I rode northeast over Montgenevre and then |
returned over Echelle -- and I thought it was pretty good.
Which reminds me that Briancon could be a nice base for at least a couple of
loop rides, since I also rode a nice loop first south from Briancon staying
to the west of the river and going a little into the Ecrins / Pelvoux
mountains, then across to Guillestre and return over Col d'Izoard.
Ken |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Alps (2005) |
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Ken Roberts wrote:
| Quote: | Instead, there is a place I like so much close to Briancon on the
valley of La Clairee, just west of Col de l'Echelle: Nevache!
Yes from the city of Briancon I rode northeast over Montgenevre and
then returned over Echelle -- and I thought it was pretty good.
Which reminds me that Briancon could be a nice base for at least a
couple of loop rides, since I also rode a nice loop first south from
Briancon staying to the west of the river and going a little into
the Ecrins / Pelvoux mountains, then across to Guillestre and return
over Col d'Izoard.
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Mention of Briancon always brings back the memory of my first ride
there in 1959 when there was no town as we know it today other than a
couple of small shops. I and my two friends rode up through the old
drawbridge into the walled city to find an inn. We had not previously
seen such a town entirely built of stone with steep streets having a
gully down the center into which everyone swept their trash.
We had a simple room with bunk beds and blankets, ate well and in the
morning saw the piles of stuff that was swept down the streets and
over the wall into the canyon below... to be carted away at times by
garbage trucks. We rode on up the valley to the Galibier with no
traffic and rode through the tunnel at the summit that was still open
at that time, the ancient road over the top was overgrown and dead.
In those days, skiing had not come to the region and riding over the
Col d'Iseran revealed a val d'Isère agricultural village with barns
and cows herded down the main street. Jean Claude Killy had not yet
worked his magic on the town that today is one of the most garish ski
towns, an insult to nature and the beautiful mountains.
Jobst Brandt |
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sergio
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Alps (2005) |
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On 31 Ott, 19:05, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
. I fault the region
| Quote: | for not having reinstated that train after the Longarone Dam disaster
that wiped out the town and railroad junction with FS Italia.
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I doubt that was the reason for abandoning for good the railroad
connection with the upper valley.
Anyhow, Cortina should be regarded as an exceptionally good example of
city planning. There are so many neighborhoods that are impossible to
go through, unless you really know your way around; so they are
untouched by the passing traffic.
Let us just hope, God forbid!, they will never build the Autostrada di
Alemagna which would run over Cimabanche and along Vallone di Landro.
Sergio
Pisa |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Alps (2005) |
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Sergio <servadio@df.unipi.it> wrote:
| Quote: | when Jean Claude Killy had not yet worked his magic on the town
that today is one of the most garish ski towns, an insult to nature
and the beautiful mountains.
As insulting as Cervinia is to Valtournenche.
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I often wonder how Cortina d'Ampezzo escaped this fate relatively
unscathed, unscathed compared to ISOLA2000 for instance, and Cervinia.
I recall the first Pink Panther movie when inspector Clouseau arrived
in Cortina in the beautiful blue and white train. I fault the region
for not having reinstated that train after the Longarone Dam disaster
that wiped out the town and railroad junction with FS Italia.
Even today, the region would do well to rebuild that rail line from
Longarone to Dobbiaco (standard gauge), the way the train from Merano
to Málles in the Alto Adige was rebuilt. Just imagine Cortina without
the thousands of cars in town and on all approaches.
http://inspectorclouseau.com/
Jobst Brandt |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Alps (2005) |
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Sergio Servadio wrote:
| Quote: | Â I fault the region for not having reinstated that train after the
Longarone Dam disaster that wiped out the town and railroad junction
with FS Italia.
I doubt that was the reason for abandoning for good the railroad
connection with the upper valley.
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Rail service ended with destruction of the junction and right-of-way
in Longarone. The route still exists as a "rails to trails" asphalt
paved route up to Cortina but from there to Dobiaco it lies ready to
use ballast.
| Quote: | Anyhow, Cortina should be regarded as an exceptionally good example of
city planning. There are so many neighborhoods that are impossible to
go through, unless you really know your way around; so they are
untouched by the passing traffic.
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It is a jewel to behold in spite of having been a winter Olympic host,
something evident from the Olympic ski jump in the middle of town, so
to speak. It fared better than Val d'Isère that got its coup de grace
with the 1992 winter Olympics.
| Quote: | Let us just hope, God forbid!, they will never build the Autostrada di
Alemagna which would run over Cimabenche and along Vallone di Landro.
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....or many other autostrada plans that various business interests are
driving, in the USA and elsewhere.
HSR is an alternative:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19072166&postcount=522
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19084745&postcount=526
With built in sound barrier.
Jobst Brandt |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Alps (2005) |
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I think there are some cases where the construction of an autostrada /
motorway / superhighway has _improved_ the bicycle touring in some region.
Examples:
* riding in NW Italy from Aosta up to Courmayeur on the Strada Statiale road
is much better since most of the vehicle traffic is on the autostrada to the
Mont Blanc tunnel.
* riding in NW Italy from Susa to Cesana Torinese is much better since most
of the traffic is on the autostrada to the Tunnel de Frejus -- and the
autostrada is mostly inside tunnels already long before it reaches the
Tunnel de Frejus -- so it's presence is not much noticed in the valley.
* riding in France from St Jean de Maurienne to Modane on the Route National
is much better with most of the traffic on the A43 autoroute to the Tunnel
de Frejus.
as for Val d'Isere losing its old character, there are other villages just a
little off that same road which have retained. Just a few minutes above the
town of Val d'Isere is le Fornet. And west off the road a ways further down
north is la Gurraz. So if you really love the older style, just ride fast
thru the modern town but take two five-minute side trips and go slow thru
the older-style villages.
* photo at bottom of http://roberts-1.com/t/b07/f/s/e
* photo at top of http://roberts-1.com/t/s06/fr/m/f
Ken |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Alps (2005) |
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Tim McNamara wrote
| Quote: | it seems like there would be nicer options angling into Nice
from closer to Italy. Coming in from Saint-Martin-Vésubie
via the D19 . . . It would have been hard to go that way after
going through the Gorge du Cians, which really is a
"don't miss this" stretch of road
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I do think Gorge du Cians is a good candidate for the most interesting road
segment between Barcellonette and Nice. It was on my first single-day loop
route for riding over all the passes between the Mediterranean Sea and Lake
Geneva. I think if you're going to ride over Col de la Cayolle because it's
more interesting and pretty than the alternatives at that stage (though I
don't think most riders would pay much attention to Cayolle if it were found
in central Switzerland), that same logic points to connecting it with Cians.
So I was surprised to learn that Cians was not included in the official
"Route des Grandes Alpes" (and some popular organized bike tours). I think
it's because (like you discovered) it doesn't "connect" well on both ends
with other obvious mountain roads. At the time I rode it, I thought I was
going to connect to the Mediterranean at Cannes or St Tropez, not Nice or
Menton -- but with more exploration I decided that I wasn't so interested in
connecting between Cians and further south.
When I rode a clockwise loop with Cians and Col Coulouille (sp?), I was able
connect between the south (bottom) end of Gorges du Cians and the next
valley east by riding a secondary road which runs roughly SW / NE and sort
of cuts off the corner between the main valley roads. Then on a different
day I climbed from that next valley up to la Tour and on some obscure roads
up to Utelle and down to St-Jean-la-Riviere in the yet next valley to the
east -- which offers less-trafficked options for riding south to Nice. (but
I can well understand how Tim would not have risked trying something like
that in his short timeframe).
Other strategy for riding thru the southern French Alps is to go for the
"high pass" climbing accomplishments -- which must include Col Bonette /
Restefond, and then logically also includes Col Turini. That pretty much
determines the route between the two (and it doesn't include Cians). A
hybrid strategy would be climb the north side of Bonette / Restefond
up-and-back from Jausiers, then ride to Barcellonette and continue south
over Cayolle.
| Quote: | I didn't like Nice all that much, but maybe I just got off to a bad start
with it.
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Other than exploring the Grand Corniche, and riding along the seacoast very
early in the morning, I didn't ride much in Nice. I did find that the old
quarter and the beach were pleasant at night. What I tried in the hills to
the north of the city seemed fun, and I'd be glad to explore that area more.
One idea for "cheating" (which I haven't tried yet) might be to take a train
or bus from Nice up to near one of the "perched" villages (likely with some
uphill riding?) I think maybe Peille, then ride south to la Turbie, then
west on the Grand Corniche road back to Nice.
Ken |
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