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Buckeye Roadgeek
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 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: Button Copy in Ohio |
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What are your feelings on button copy? It seems like most roadgeeks
love button copy, but it's no big deal to me. But then again, I live
in Ohio, where button copy is still king.
See, in my mind, button copy signs give the feeling of a classic
highway sign, while reflective signs are just utilitarian guide signs.
Sort of like flat license plates...they serve their purpose all right,
but they can't live up to the legacy of their embossed predecessors.
I'd estimate that at least 90% of Ohio's guide signs are still button
copy. Here in Columbus, I-70 got new reflective signs when it was
reconstructed back toward the beginning of decade, and so did the
newer portion of I-670 (as did most of the innerbelt) but apart from
that, pretty much all the freeways have button copy, including the
eastern half of I-670.
Most of Ohio's button copy is new enough that it won't need replaced
for several more years, and ODOT has been known (in Columbus, anyway)
to let button copy signs get pretty old before it replaces them.
Hopefully, by the time they're ready to replace, we'll be getting new
Clearview signs. |
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Brent Jonas
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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On Nov 18, 8:14 am, Buckeye Roadgeek <OhioRo...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | What are your feelings on button copy? It seems like most roadgeeks
love button copy, but it's no big deal to me. But then again, I live
in Ohio, where button copy is still king.
See, in my mind, button copy signs give the feeling of a classic
highway sign, while reflective signs are just utilitarian guide signs.
Sort of like flat license plates...they serve their purpose all right,
but they can't live up to the legacy of their embossed predecessors.
I'd estimate that at least 90% of Ohio's guide signs are still button
copy. Here in Columbus, I-70 got new reflective signs when it was
reconstructed back toward the beginning of decade, and so did the
newer portion of I-670 (as did most of the innerbelt) but apart from
that, pretty much all the freeways have button copy, including the
eastern half of I-670.
Most of Ohio's button copy is new enough that it won't need replaced
for several more years, and ODOT has been known (in Columbus, anyway)
to let button copy signs get pretty old before it replaces them.
Hopefully, by the time they're ready to replace, we'll be getting new
Clearview signs.
|
I'm a big fan of button copy. I don't mind reflective signs, but the
company that does it in California is notorious for major blunders,
not adhering to CalTrans signage standards...heck, even the California
route shields on the BGS's look rather cheap, with the numbers looking
much thinner with the white paint than what was the standard in
California for so many years. There's a few examples where these
shields still meet the old standards (the CA 237 shields on the BGS
signs along I-880 are a great example of what they SHOULD look like
throughout the state).
-Brent |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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I would tend to think it's more like 60-70% of guide signs are button-
copy now, if not even less than that. They have been replacing signs
much more rapidly than may meet the eye. As a couple of examples,
excepting a few remnant button-copy signs in some areas, much of I-75
between the southern I-475 junction near Perrysburg & the Wapakoneta
area, along with much of I-90 between I-77 and the Lake-Ashtabula
County Line, has been re-signed.
This brings up another observation. A few years ago, District 2 of
ODOT (Toledo & portions of NW Ohio) started a trend of, when re-
signing non-interstate stretches of freeway, like OH 2 west of the
Thomas Edison Bridge, the Fremont Bypass and US 6 around Bowling
Green, exit numbers were added...based on distance to the western or
southern end of the highway (or entrance into Ohio). I've noticed now
that other parts of the Buckeye State have started to do this, on
highways like OH 11 in Ashtabula County and OH 844 near Dayton. Has
anyone else seen any other examples of this outside of ODOT District
2?
Dan
On Nov 18, 11:14 am, Buckeye Roadgeek <OhioRo...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | What are your feelings on button copy? It seems like most roadgeeks
love button copy, but it's no big deal to me. But then again, I live
in Ohio, where button copy is still king.
See, in my mind, button copy signs give the feeling of a classic
highway sign, while reflective signs are just utilitarian guide signs.
Sort of like flat license plates...they serve their purpose all right,
but they can't live up to the legacy of their embossed predecessors.
I'd estimate that at least 90% of Ohio's guide signs are still button
copy. Here in Columbus, I-70 got new reflective signs when it was
reconstructed back toward the beginning of decade, and so did the
newer portion of I-670 (as did most of the innerbelt) but apart from
that, pretty much all the freeways have button copy, including the
eastern half of I-670.
Most of Ohio's button copy is new enough that it won't need replaced
for several more years, and ODOT has been known (in Columbus, anyway)
to let button copy signs get pretty old before it replaces them.
Hopefully, by the time they're ready to replace, we'll be getting new
Clearview signs. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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On Nov 18, 10:14 am, Buckeye Roadgeek <OhioRo...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | What are your feelings on button copy? It seems like most roadgeeks
love button copy, but it's no big deal to me. But then again, I live
in Ohio, where button copy is still king.
See, in my mind, button copy signs give the feeling of a classic
highway sign, while reflective signs are just utilitarian guide signs.
Sort of like flat license plates...they serve their purpose all right,
but they can't live up to the legacy of their embossed predecessors.
I'd estimate that at least 90% of Ohio's guide signs are still button
copy. Here in Columbus, I-70 got new reflective signs when it was
reconstructed back toward the beginning of decade, and so did the
newer portion of I-670 (as did most of the innerbelt) but apart from
that, pretty much all the freeways have button copy, including the
eastern half of I-670.
Most of Ohio's button copy is new enough that it won't need replaced
for several more years, and ODOT has been known (in Columbus, anyway)
to let button copy signs get pretty old before it replaces them.
Hopefully, by the time they're ready to replace, we'll be getting new
Clearview signs.
|
I think they should continue to make BGS interstate shields in button
copy. They were much easier to read than some of these newer shields
with narrow digits. |
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Jonathan L
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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On Nov 18, 6:25 pm, john_broc...@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Nov 18, 10:14 am, Buckeye Roadgeek <OhioRo...@gmail.com> wrote:
What are your feelings on button copy? It seems like most roadgeeks
love button copy, but it's no big deal to me. But then again, I live
in Ohio, where button copy is still king.
See, in my mind, button copy signs give the feeling of a classic
highway sign, while reflective signs are just utilitarian guide signs.
Sort of like flat license plates...they serve their purpose all right,
but they can't live up to the legacy of their embossed predecessors.
I'd estimate that at least 90% of Ohio's guide signs are still button
copy. Here in Columbus, I-70 got new reflective signs when it was
reconstructed back toward the beginning of decade, and so did the
newer portion of I-670 (as did most of the innerbelt) but apart from
that, pretty much all the freeways have button copy, including the
eastern half of I-670.
Most of Ohio's button copy is new enough that it won't need replaced
for several more years, and ODOT has been known (in Columbus, anyway)
to let button copy signs get pretty old before it replaces them.
Hopefully, by the time they're ready to replace, we'll be getting new
Clearview signs.
I think they should continue to make BGS interstate shields in button
copy. They were much easier to read than some of these newer shields
with narrow digits.
|
One of the things I've noticed up here in Washington is that in foggy
conditions, the old button-copy signs are much easier to read than the
old reflective signs, even when they're not illuminated. I'll grant
that the newest reflective signs are more visible than either, but
when they get old...no way. There are a few signs around here that
are faded enough that there's not much left inside that Interstate
shield.
As for the aesthetics, well, there is a handcrafted look to them as
opposed to the glossy Xerox quality of retroreflective signs. I'm
agnostic on the subject. I just wish they'd clean the button-copy
signs down in LA every so often.
....with the economy sputtering out, maybe there's a jobs program in
there somewhere... ;)
-Jonathan |
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Cameron Kaiser
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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Brent Jonas <brentrjonas@aol.com> writes:
| Quote: | I'm a big fan of button copy. I don't mind reflective signs, but the
company that does it in California is notorious for major blunders,
not adhering to CalTrans signage standards...heck, even the California
route shields on the BGS's look rather cheap, with the numbers looking
much thinner with the white paint than what was the standard in
California for so many years. There's a few examples where these
shields still meet the old standards (the CA 237 shields on the BGS
signs along I-880 are a great example of what they SHOULD look like
throughout the state).
|
Got a picture of those?
I adore California button copy except for the glued-on stuff. Those signs
should just have been left as straight enamel (the enamel signs that are
still up have weathered very well). But I agree that California
retroflective signage sucks moose wanky. It's just awful.
--
Cameron Kaiser * ckaiser@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
personal page: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ ** |
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Marc Fannin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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Buckeye Roadgeek wrote:
| Quote: | Most of Ohio's button copy is new enough that it won't need replaced
for several more years, and ODOT has been known (in Columbus, anyway)
to let button copy signs get pretty old before it replaces them.
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That foot-dragging was done away with in recent years.
From "Gas-tax increase fuels ODOT building boom", Cleveland's _The
Plain Dealer_, 12/31/06:
"Deftly pushed through the legislature by the Ohio Contractors
Association, its construction industry allies and ODOT Director Gordon
Proctor, the gas-tax increase has fueled Gov. Bob Taft's 'Jobs and
Progress' program, a 10-year, $5 billion highway construction boom.
So flush is ODOT that the agency is spending $70 million to replace
every one of its 500,000 road signs - even though no federal
regulations require it and ODOT's own studies show that fewer than
6,000 signs - barely 1 percent of the total - are missing, damaged or
otherwise deficient."
Whole article is at http://tinyurl.com/5e6sxm , NewsBank "America's
Newspapers" (may not be accessible)
_________________________________________________________________________
Marc Fannin|musxf579 @hotmail.com|http://roadfan.com/ (m.t.r FAQ, etc.) |
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Buckeye Roadgeek
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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On Nov 18, 3:53 pm, djg...@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | I would tend to think it's more like 60-70% of guide signs are button-
copy now, if not even less than that. They have been replacing signs
much more rapidly than may meet the eye. As a couple of examples,
excepting a few remnant button-copy signs in some areas, much of I-75
between the southern I-475 junction near Perrysburg & the Wapakoneta
area, along with much of I-90 between I-77 and the Lake-Ashtabula
County Line, has been re-signed.
|
Ok, I'll admit that my estimation was based on the number of button
copy signs left here in Central Ohio. In Columbus alone, I'd probably
say it's about 75%, given the reflective signs along I-70 and in
several other areas where work has been done since 2000 or so.
| Quote: | This brings up another observation. A few years ago, District 2 of
ODOT (Toledo & portions of NW Ohio) started a trend of, when re-
signing non-interstate stretches of freeway, like OH 2 west of the
Thomas Edison Bridge, the Fremont Bypass and US 6 around Bowling
Green, exit numbers were added...based on distance to the western or
southern end of the highway (or entrance into Ohio). I've noticed now
that other parts of the Buckeye State have started to do this, on
highways like OH 11 in Ashtabula County and OH 844 near Dayton. Has
anyone else seen any other examples of this outside of ODOT District
2?
|
Hmm...Thinking of the non-Interstate freeways here in District 6, I
don't recall any exit numbers. There is an "exit 23" along US 23 at
the I-270 interchange, but the road isn't a freeway at that point. In
fact, I suspect the "exit 23" was added simply to draw attention to
the 3-way number coincidence (I-270's exit number is also 23 here).
--Buckeye Roadgeek |
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Buckeye Roadgeek
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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On Nov 19, 6:57 pm, Marc Fannin <musxf...@kent.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | So flush is ODOT that the agency is spending $70 million to replace
every one of its 500,000 road signs - even though no federal
regulations require it and ODOT's own studies show that fewer than
6,000 signs - barely 1 percent of the total - are missing, damaged or
otherwise deficient."
|
Really? Even as someone who doesn't like button copy, I think that's a
waste. Why not use that money for something like, I dunno, a
Nelsonville Bypass? Or the 70/71 split? Hopefully we'll get some
better signage in some places, though.
One of my main complaints about retroreflective signs is the whole
"lighting is optional" attitude...it seems that guide signs ODOT have
installed in the last few years have no lighting. Then again, it's a
crapshoot whether any of ODOT's lights will work at a given time
anyway, so maybe it's easier for them to just stop trying. At least
they won't be wasting even more money by replacing the not-broken
lights along with the not-broken signs.
-- Buckeye Roadgeek |
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Brent Jonas
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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On Nov 18, 7:53 pm, Cameron Kaiser <ckai...@floodgap.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Brent Jonas <brentrjo...@aol.com> writes:
I'm a big fan of button copy. I don't mind reflective signs, but the
company that does it in California is notorious for major blunders,
not adhering to CalTrans signage standards...heck, even the California
route shields on the BGS's look rather cheap, with the numbers looking
much thinner with the white paint than what was the standard in
California for so many years. There's a few examples where these
shields still meet the old standards (the CA 237 shields on the BGS
signs along I-880 are a great example of what they SHOULD look like
throughout the state).
Got a picture of those?
I adore California button copy except for the glued-on stuff. Those signs
should just have been left as straight enamel (the enamel signs that are
still up have weathered very well). But I agree that California
retroflective signage sucks moose wanky. It's just awful.
--
Cameron Kaiser * ckai...@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
personal page:http://www.cameronkaiser..com/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
**http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/**
|
I'm sure I can find some images on the internet.
Actually, if you drive east along I-40, you will eventually come
across an extremely rare type of sign in California. It's a
relatively new reflective BUTTON-COPY sign for the U.S. 95 exit, with
the original U.S. shield cutout that was common for so many years
throughout California, just like how they used to do it. It's
probably my favorite BGS in California.
-Brent |
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Marc Fannin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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On Nov 20, 10:01 am, Buckeye Roadgeek ...wrote:
| Quote: | On Nov 19, 6:57 pm, Marc Fannin <musxf...@kent.edu> wrote:
[article 12/31/06:] "So flush is ODOT that the agency is spending $70 million to replace
every one of its 500,000 road signs - even though no federal
regulations require it and ODOT's own studies show that fewer than
6,000 signs - barely 1 percent of the total - are missing, damaged or
otherwise deficient."
Really? Even as someone who doesn't like button copy, I think that's a
waste. Why not use that money for something like, I dunno, a
Nelsonville Bypass? Or the 70/71 split? Hopefully we'll get some
better signage in some places, though.
|
FWIW, ODOT's website has a Jobs and Progress page, so you can peruse
the plan, though I haven't found anything there specifically about
sign replacement.
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/policy/JobsAndProgressPlan/Pages/default.aspx
| Quote: | One of my main complaints about retroreflective signs is the whole
"lighting is optional" attitude...it seems that guide signs ODOT have
installed in the last few years have no lighting.
|
If they're the new reflective ones, they reflect pretty well, at least
for now....
| Quote: | Then again, it's a
crapshoot whether any of ODOT's lights will work at a given time
anyway, so maybe it's easier for them to just stop trying. At least
they won't be wasting even more money by replacing the not-broken
lights along with the not-broken signs.
|
I don't think it's always a matter of lack of replacement of
parts...I've heard stories that ODOT shuts off circuits on purpose to
save money.
_________________________________________________________________________
Marc Fannin|musxf579 @hotmail.com|http://roadfan.com/ (m.t.r FAQ, etc.) |
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argatlam_roads@yahoo.com.
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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[Mr. Jonas:]
| Quote: | Actually, if you drive east along I-40, you will eventually come
across an extremely rare type of sign in California. It's a
relatively new reflective BUTTON-COPY sign for the U.S. 95 exit, with
the original U.S. shield cutout that was common for so many years
throughout California, just like how they used to do it. It's
probably my favorite BGS in California.
|
Depending on where it is located, it may have been placed by Arizona DOT
instead of Caltrans. ADOT has placed signs (typically with layout done
to Caltrans guidelines but following ADOT specifications with regard to
sheeting, copy, and substrate) at least 12 miles within California,
including at the I-40/US 95 interchange. |
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Brent Jonas
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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On Nov 20, 11:05 am, "argatlam_ro...@yahoo.com.mx"
<argatlam_ro...@yahoo.com.mx> wrote:
| Quote: | [Mr. Jonas:]
Actually, if you drive east along I-40, you will eventually come
across an extremely rare type of sign in California. It's a
relatively new reflective BUTTON-COPY sign for the U.S. 95 exit, with
the original U.S. shield cutout that was common for so many years
throughout California, just like how they used to do it. It's
probably my favorite BGS in California.
Depending on where it is located, it may have been placed by Arizona DOT
instead of Caltrans. ADOT has placed signs (typically with layout done
to Caltrans guidelines but following ADOT specifications with regard to
sheeting, copy, and substrate) at least 12 miles within California,
including at the I-40/US 95 interchange.
|
Interesting. I wasn't aware of the fact.
-Brent |
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Cameron Kaiser
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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Brent Jonas <brentrjonas@aol.com> writes:
| Quote: | Actually, if you drive east along I-40, you will eventually come
across an extremely rare type of sign in California. It's a
relatively new reflective BUTTON-COPY sign for the U.S. 95 exit, with
the original U.S. shield cutout that was common for so many years
throughout California, just like how they used to do it. It's
probably my favorite BGS in California.
|
I wonder if this was related to Arizona's partial signing of AZ 95 -- there
are some ADOT erected signs along I-40. Was this before the US 95 N exit to
Searchlight, or is this the exit to US 95 S to Blythe?
--
Cameron Kaiser * ckaiser@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
personal page: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ ** |
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Marc Fannin
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Button Copy in Ohio |
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Buckeye Roadgeek wrote:
| Quote: | What are your feelings on button copy? It seems like most roadgeeks
love button copy, but it's no big deal to me. But then again, I live
in Ohio, where button copy is still king.
|
I can't tell by your postings if you know or not, but all signs being
replaced would still be replaced with reflective sheeting versions
eventually, even without the accellerated sign-replacement plan that I
mentioned elsewhere in this thread, because all U.S. states have
stopped using button copy for new installations. See the post from
December 17, 2000, entitled "Farewell to Button Copy (Was: List of
states that used button copy)":
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/3d4e957b8741f740
(Message ID: 3A3D4D1F.58FD0D6C@earthlink.net for those who want to
circumvent Google Groups)
_________________________________________________________________________
Marc Fannin|musxf579 @hotmail.com|http://roadfan.com/ (m.t.r FAQ, etc.) |
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