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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:37 pm Post subject: Death Valley tours from Vegas? |
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Patty Winter
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Death Valley tours from Vegas? |
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In article <bd95b7$36t$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Scott Hunter <scott@hunterbob.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
My mate and I will be going to Vegas for a week on the 6th July, then we're
going on a coach tour for two weeks to see the big national parks inc. Zion,
Bryce, Grand Canyon, Yosemite etc. When we're in Vegas would like to see as
much of the nearby sites as possible, hopefully Death Valley; but we are too
young to hire a car. Which escorted tour companies, if any, operate tours to
Death Valley at this time of year?
|
Scott, I'm not familiar myself with any of the companies that offer such
tours, but I just typed "death valley tours las vegas" into Google and
got a bunch of hits. A quick scan showed them to be in large SUVs or
small vans; there might be some bus tours as well. (The tour operators
were pushing the fact that smaller vehicles can go places where buses
can't.) Anyway, give that a try and it should give you some good starting
ideas.
Patty |
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bostnbob
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:46 am Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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"alohacyberian" <alohacyberian@att.net> wrote in message
news:Z2fJa.16371$3o3.1282464@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: | "William December Starr" <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote in message
news:bd2fi2$la7$1@panix1.panix.com...
In article <mumbles-A90876.05125921062003@news.verizon.net>,
Alexander Mendes <mumbles@nospam.com> said:
(and yes, I'm well aware of the fact the the democrats were
intolerant of blacks until the mid-late 60s. It has nothing to do
with the point I made, and frankly, it doesn't have much to do with
current politics)
Southern Democrats a/k/a Dixiecrats, yes. Who were basically
Republicans in most ways but had to call themselves Democrats
LOL! So there were some Democrats that embarrass you - so by all means
claim
they were really Republicans. Do you expect any thinking person to take
such
nonesense seriously? And I suppose the Republicans who put the first
Black
Secretary of State into office are really Democrats! No wonder you guys
are
having such trouble at the polls, but, keep it up - no conservative could
give you worse publicity than you give yourselves. KM
|
Your knowledge of the political history of the United States is laughably
superficial. It is true that
the "Solid South" was a vital part of the coalition that made up the
Democratic Party going into the
Sixties. Nevertheless, a Democratic President was the first to recognize
desegregation as a moral
issue, and backed up this position by confronting defiant local racist
Democratic politicians with federal
force, risking the breakup of his own party. It was a Democratic President
from Massachusetts who
proposed the great Civil Rights Act of 1964, and it was the nation's grief
over his assassination that enabled
a Democratic President from Texas to get it through a Democrat-controlled
Congress over a Southern
filibuster. As expected, the Democratic Party did split, with the racist
Dixiecrats bolting to the Republican
Party, where they were greeted with open arms, became the core of the modern
Republican Party in the South,
and in many cases rose to positions of power and presige in their new party;
prime example: Strom Thurmond
of South Carolina, so recently hailed as a great statesman by prominent
Republicans.
| Quote: | P.S. When your party does something reprehensible, be honest and condemn
it.
KM
|
I hope you will take your own advice. Probably the greatest service the
Democratic Party ever rendered this
nation was to rise above its own partisan interests and take a stand for
racial justice, knowing full well the advantage
it would give the Republicans in the South for decades to come. I doubt we
will ever see the Republicans make a
similarly principled sacrifice on any issue.
-- bostnbob |
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alohacyberian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:38 am Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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"RogerM" <rodger.mckay@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3EF859DA.4B09CA3B@ns.sympatico.ca...
| Quote: | Bob wrote:
What slogans? I used none. You have dismissed my statements based on my
age.
If that is not prejudice, what the hell do you call it?
Bob
It's no more predjudice than you claiming your age as some sort of special
claim on
insight.
You bring age into these discussions as much as anyone else.
|
And then if you fall all over yourself because of his age, you're wonderful
and insightful, and if you don't fall for the ploy, you're prejudiced? I
thouht so. KM
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
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alohacyberian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:38 am Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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"Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3EF8A53E.2617B8B8@ix.netcom.com...
| Quote: | RogerM wrote:
Bob wrote:
You bring age into these discussions as much as anyone else.
Sure I do. Why not?
Bob
|
Because the age of the messenger isn't relevant to anything. It's the
contents of the message that matters. KM
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
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alohacyberian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:38 am Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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"Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3EF8A53E.2617B8B8@ix.netcom.com...
| Quote: | RogerM wrote:
Bob wrote:
If that is not prejudice, what the hell do you call it?
Bob
It's no more predjudice than you claiming your age as some sort of
special claim on
insight.
Not insight. Experience. Experience is a great teacher.
It beats the hell out of unproved theories.
If the older generation does not share its experiences with the younger
generation,
then the younger generation is bound to repeat the mistakes of the older
generation.
That's why people study history.
|
Yes, by all means the older generations should share their views with the
younger generations, but, their contentions must be valid and hold water. We
all know that there are plenty of old fools who have misinterpreted their
experiences and many more who haven't kept up with the ever-changing times.
Good grief, Noam Chomsky is old and he's still spouting the same tired
bromides somebody else wretched-up over 70 years ago! If age were a viable
criteria for evaluation, then the words of all old people would be wise and
accurate. We all know that isn't the case. So, why would your words be any
better than any other old fool? Well, they might be, but, that remains to be
seen until you stick to messages and ignore the messengers. V.I. Lenin said
some very credible things, but, I'd hardly use him as a barometer for
successful political or economic systems. KM
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
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alohacyberian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:54 am Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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"bostnbob" <bostnbob@alt.net> wrote in message
news:bda9s5$ikq$0@pita.alt.net...
| Quote: | "alohacyberian" <alohacyberian@att.net> wrote in message
news:Z2fJa.16371$3o3.1282464@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
"William December Starr" <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote in message
news:bd2fi2$la7$1@panix1.panix.com...
In article <mumbles-A90876.05125921062003@news.verizon.net>,
Alexander Mendes <mumbles@nospam.com> said:
I hope you will take your own advice. Probably the greatest service the
Democratic Party ever rendered this
nation was to rise above its own partisan interests and take a stand for
racial justice, knowing full well the advantage
it would give the Republicans in the South for decades to come. I doubt we
will ever see the Republicans make a
similarly principled sacrifice on any issue.
-- bostnbob
|
The idea that it was only Democrats who favored the racial justice is
patently absurd. Your double-standard is evident and hilarious. You excuse
the Democrats for the renegade Southern bigots in the South while they were
Democrats; but, the second the few who switched parties became Republicans
you condemn them and claim the entire Republican party agreed with their
biases. Utter hogwash. The majority of the Democrats who were racial bigots
DID NOT SWITCH PARTIES and most remained Democrats till the days they died
and some are still alive, still Democrats and still with us. Brown vs. The
Board of Education and the subsequent racial integration of the public
schools came down in 1954 under Republicans Dwight Eisenhower and Chief
Justice Earl Warren (former Republican governor of California.) The U.S.
Supreme Court consolidated five different cases from Kansas, Delaware, the
District of Columbia, Virginia and South Carolina, so it was hardly a pure
North vs. South issue. That was long before the Civil Rights act you
reference and I urge you to look at how the Republicans voted for the Civil
Rights act of 1964 - it might shed some light on your biases. I defy you to
present one single publication or statement from the Republican Party that
supported racial segregation of the public schools or opposed the Civil
Rights Act of 1964. Are you forgetting that the sole reason for the founding
of the Republican party was to end Negro (Black) slavery in the United
States? Remember, your sainted, "can-do-no-wrong" Democrats were either
pro-slavery or pro-choice. Twisting history and taking things out of context
may be an acceptable scheme for propagandists and those who argue with the
misinformed, but, fails to work with those who can see the transgressions of
individuals irrespective of their political parties. KM
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:10 am Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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alohacyberian wrote:
| Quote: | "Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3EF8A53E.2617B8B8@ix.netcom.com...
RogerM wrote:
Bob wrote:
You bring age into these discussions as much as anyone else.
Sure I do. Why not?
Bob
Because the age of the messenger isn't relevant to anything. It's the
contents of the message that matters. KM
|
What are the specific contents you are objection to?
All I have gotten from you is generalizations, nothing specific.
Bob
| Quote: |
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
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booksite2000
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Death Valley tours from Vegas? |
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If at *all* possible you want to do the Death Valley tour in a car. It
is absolutely *spectacular* and it's waaaaaaaaaay better to be able to
stop and get out whenever/wherever you like. The major car rental
companies require that you be 25, but I think you'll find if you do a
little internet research that some of the smaller, local companies
will rent to younger people.
But even if you can't get the car....GO. It's unforgettable!!
patty1@wintertime.com (Patty Winter) wrote in message news:<bda5od$aec$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
| Quote: | In article <bd95b7$36t$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Scott Hunter <scott@hunterbob.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
My mate and I will be going to Vegas for a week on the 6th July, then we're
going on a coach tour for two weeks to see the big national parks inc. Zion,
Bryce, Grand Canyon, Yosemite etc. When we're in Vegas would like to see as
much of the nearby sites as possible, hopefully Death Valley; but we are too
young to hire a car. Which escorted tour companies, if any, operate tours to
Death Valley at this time of year?
Scott, I'm not familiar myself with any of the companies that offer such
tours, but I just typed "death valley tours las vegas" into Google and
got a bunch of hits. A quick scan showed them to be in large SUVs or
small vans; there might be some bus tours as well. (The tour operators
were pushing the fact that smaller vehicles can go places where buses
can't.) Anyway, give that a try and it should give you some good starting
ideas.
Patty |
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Nancy Kay
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:31 am Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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In article
<Jp4Ka.19484$3o3.1556730@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"alohacyberian" <alohacyberian@att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | If age were a viable
criteria for evaluation, then the words of all old people would be wise and
accurate. We all know that isn't the case.
|
I doubt that you speak for all the "younger" generation when you say "We
all know that isn't the case.
So, why would your words be any
| Quote: | better than any other old fool? Well, they might be, but, that remains to be
seen until you stick to messages and ignore the messengers.
|
Why would your words be better than any other young fool?? I know that
your attitude and thinking is not along the same thoughts of the many I
have dealt with and I don"t consider them young fools like you.
--
Nancy Kay
"Patience is a Virtue"
remove no in e-mail address |
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RJ
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Car rental and Driving tips & general information on |
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On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:56:44 GMT, "George Greene" <ggreene@neo.rr.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | I've also noted that NJ has some of the best gas prices in the East---so
obviously attendants don't add to the price of gas....look what it costs in
CT, NY, etc compared to NJ.
|
That's because the tax per gallon is much less in NJ, not because of
the mode of operation.
---
Bob |
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alohacyberian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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"Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3EF8E9BB.44B9A001@ix.netcom.com...
| Quote: | alohacyberian wrote:
"Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3EF8A53E.2617B8B8@ix.netcom.com...
RogerM wrote:
Bob wrote:
Yes, by all means the older generations should share their views with the
younger generations, but, their contentions must be valid and hold water.
But, without experience, who are you to make that judgment?
|
Judgement comes from the use of reason and logic, not necessarily experience.
I have no way of guaging or evaluating your experiences, so I'll stick to
your words that are germane to the discussion. KM
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
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alohacyberian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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"Nancy Kay" <nonacks37310@noinsightbb.com> wrote in message
news:nonacks37310-C163D6.22313024062003@netnews.attbi.com...
| Quote: | In article
Jp4Ka.19484$3o3.1556730@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"alohacyberian" <alohacyberian@att.net> wrote:
If age were a viable
criteria for evaluation, then the words of all old people would be wise
and
accurate. We all know that isn't the case.
I doubt that you speak for all the "younger" generation when you say "We
all know that isn't the case.
Anyone who doesn't know that all old people aren't wise is extremely stupid.
So, why would your words be any
better than any other old fool? Well, they might be, but, that remains
to be
seen until you stick to messages and ignore the messengers.
Why would your words be better than any other young fool?? I know that
your attitude and thinking is not along the same thoughts of the many I
have dealt with and I don"t consider them young fools like you.
--
Nancy Kay
I wasn't speaking for the "younger generation", I was speaking for thinking |
people. You're presuming I'm young and haven't one iota of factual
information to support your contention. If you want to believe that all old
people are wise, be my guest, but, it only illustrates that you're probably
old and you definately aren't wise. Again, if you want to think I'm a young
fool, be my guest. But, you concluded out of thin air that I'm young and a
fool, attributed your creation to me and then argued against a pure
fabrication of your own invention. I'm supposed to respect that kind of lack
of logic? I don't think so. KM
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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alohacyberian wrote:
| Quote: | "Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3EF8E88F.FA05024C@ix.netcom.com...
alohacyberian wrote:
"Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3EF8A53E.2617B8B8@ix.netcom.com...
RogerM wrote:
Bob wrote:
You bring age into these discussions as much as anyone else.
Sure I do. Why not?
Bob
Because the age of the messenger isn't relevant to anything. It's the
contents of the message that matters. KM
What are the specific contents you are objection to?
All I have gotten from you is generalizations, nothing specific.
Bob
Then why are you responding? KM
|
Trying to gain information. Why are you withholding information?
(Yes, that is a bit extreme, admittedly. But you attacked me, I did not
attack you. )
Bob
| Quote: |
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: AMERICA'S FUTURE LOOKS... |
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alohacyberian wrote:
| Quote: | "Nancy Kay" <nonacks37310@noinsightbb.com> wrote in message
news:nonacks37310-C163D6.22313024062003@netnews.attbi.com...
In article
Jp4Ka.19484$3o3.1556730@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"alohacyberian" <alohacyberian@att.net> wrote:
If age were a viable
criteria for evaluation, then the words of all old people would be wise
and
accurate. We all know that isn't the case.
I doubt that you speak for all the "younger" generation when you say "We
all know that isn't the case.
Anyone who doesn't know that all old people aren't wise is extremely stupid.
|
But even more stupid is the young person who dismisses all old people as fools.
Especially if he dismisses those who disagree with him. It is in the discussion
of disagreement which generates wisdom. The discussion of agreements is only
mutual ego boosting.
| Quote: |
So, why would your words be any
better than any other old fool? Well, they might be, but, that remains
to be
seen until you stick to messages and ignore the messengers.
Why would your words be better than any other young fool?? I know that
your attitude and thinking is not along the same thoughts of the many I
have dealt with and I don"t consider them young fools like you.
--
Nancy Kay
I wasn't speaking for the "younger generation", I was speaking for thinking
people. You're presuming I'm young and haven't one iota of factual
information to support your contention. If you want to believe that all old
people are wise, be my guest, but, it only illustrates that you're probably
old and you definately aren't wise. Again, if you want to think I'm a young
fool, be my guest. But, you concluded out of thin air that I'm young and a
fool, attributed your creation to me and then argued against a pure
fabrication of your own invention. I'm supposed to respect that kind of lack
of logic? I don't think so. KM
--
(-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or
visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect
to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all
about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
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