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grusl
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 Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: Re: .and a cast of thousands |
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"PeterL" <po.ning@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:407d1f15-02c6-4120-bb2b-0ad012f49db5@25g2000prz.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 2:02 pm, Alan S <noth...@there.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:52:51 -0500, "Pat"
m...@sunmaill.com> wrote:
China does not have the freedom of expression enjoyed in our country.
It's totally unfair to use western standards to judge how China reacts
to protestors.
That is where we differ. I judge all countries and
governments by the freedom of their people.
Not Western standards. My standards. Compared to China, I
actually live South-East:-)
If a nation applies for the right to hold the greatest
athletes show on Earth, and includes promises of human
rights reforms in that application, then that nation must be
prepared to accept the criticism of those who see failure to
meet that challenge. Including criticism from it's own
people.
http://tinyurl.com/62ofb2
"On the night of July 13, 2001, tens of thousands of people
poured into Tiananmen Square to celebrate the International
Olympic Committee's decision to award the 2008 Olympic Games
to Beijing. Firecrackers exploded, flags flew high, and cars
honked wildly. It was a moment to be savored. Chinese
President Jiang Zemin and other leaders exhorted the crowds
to work together to prepare for the Olympics. "Winning the
host rights means winning the respect, trust, and favor of
the international community," Wang Wei, a senior Beijing
Olympic official, proclaimed."
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Latest: Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep, Perchance...
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Alan: The West has had democracy for hundreds of years. China has
not had any democracy and only within the last 20 years have their
citizens enjoy any level of freedom. Is it fair to expect them to be
at the level of the West in 20 years time as compared to, let's say in
the US, 250 years of democracy? I don't think so. If you think that
China should come up to the standard of the West in 20 years' time,
then you and I disagree.
----------
Brother, you know nothing about Western politics. The West has not had
democracy for hundreds of years (and the US certainly hasn't had it for 250
years). It began with universal suffrage, which occurred roughly from the
1890s to World War II.
China has access to the modern world. It's not a cultural thing. It's just
greedy dictators holding on to power. A Japanese economy with a Zimbabwean
political mindset. There's no excuse. Your dictatorship sympathies do you no
favours.
Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore |
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David Horne, _the_ chance
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: ?and a cast of thousands |
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Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:52:55 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:42:05 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:34:34 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
Alan S <nothere@there.com> wrote:
[]
I felt the best real performers, apart from the athletes,
were taken away in Police vans after being arrested in "Free
Tibet" protests.
Fine, except I wonder how the UK media and population will react
when (rather, if) Chinese protesters come to the London olympics
and climb up Nelson's Column to unfurl banners protesting the
continuing (and it likely _will_ be) occupation of Afghanistan (get
the Olympic irony?) and Iraq?
Also, how about some Chinese protesters in Glasgow for the 2014
Commonwealth Games to protest the appalling life expancy for local
residents, and the knife crime, drunken violence etc.
By then Scotland will be an independent country.
LOL.
Full of unemployed former Westminster MPs.
I'll remind you of the independence bit in 2014! :)
LOL David makes a note in his little black book?.
|
Little apple notepad, I'll have you know!
--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate -www.davidhorne.net
(email address on website) "If people think God is interesting, the
onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about.
Otherwise they should just shut up about it." -Richard Dawkins |
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Martin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: ?and a cast of thousands |
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On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:52:55 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
| Quote: | Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:42:05 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:34:34 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
Alan S <nothere@there.com> wrote:
[]
I felt the best real performers, apart from the athletes,
were taken away in Police vans after being arrested in "Free
Tibet" protests.
Fine, except I wonder how the UK media and population will react when
(rather, if) Chinese protesters come to the London olympics and climb up
Nelson's Column to unfurl banners protesting the continuing (and it
likely _will_ be) occupation of Afghanistan (get the Olympic irony?) and
Iraq?
Also, how about some Chinese protesters in Glasgow for the 2014
Commonwealth Games to protest the appalling life expancy for local
residents, and the knife crime, drunken violence etc.
By then Scotland will be an independent country.
LOL.
Full of unemployed former Westminster MPs.
I'll remind you of the independence bit in 2014! 
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LOL David makes a note in his little black book?.
--
Martin |
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Alan S
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: ?and a cast of thousands |
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On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:04:45 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
| Quote: | I felt the best real performers, apart from the athletes,
were taken away in Police vans after being arrested in "Free
Tibet" protests.
Fine, except I wonder how the UK media and population will react when
(rather, if) Chinese protesters come to the London olympics and climb up
Nelson's Column to unfurl banners protesting the continuing (and it
likely _will_ be) occupation of Afghanistan (get the Olympic irony?) and
Iraq?
Probably very well, by comparison. They may be arrested and
deported if they do it in the way you describe. But they
would not be arrested if they conduct a legal protest;
something beyond the understanding of the Beijing
authorities.
I think some locals would get pissed off after a while- and I also think
we have double standards. I notice you questioning China getting the
games in the first place- I assume you had similar misgivings when the
UK got them. Or does occupying countries and causing hundreds of
thousands of deaths get a pass if you're a democracy?
70 children were killed by Nato fire in Afghanistan last week. 70! I
think a lot of us have been completely inured to these figures now- they
hardly even shock any longer.
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Point taken - but it's not the point I was making in reply
to the comment.
My point is that you could put what you just wrote on a
placard and march up and down in Hyde Park, or Westminster,
and no-one will arrest you unless you block traffic or you
put someone's eye out with your placard.
As could I in front of Parliament in Canberra or anywhere in
Sydney.
Try doing the same thing on any controversial subject in
Tien an Mien Square - or any public location in mainland
China.
PS How many children did Taliban heroin kill this week in
the world?
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Latest: Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep, Perchance... |
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David Horne, _the_ chance
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: ?and a cast of thousands |
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Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:42:05 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:34:34 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
Alan S <nothere@there.com> wrote:
[]
I felt the best real performers, apart from the athletes,
were taken away in Police vans after being arrested in "Free
Tibet" protests.
Fine, except I wonder how the UK media and population will react when
(rather, if) Chinese protesters come to the London olympics and climb up
Nelson's Column to unfurl banners protesting the continuing (and it
likely _will_ be) occupation of Afghanistan (get the Olympic irony?) and
Iraq?
Also, how about some Chinese protesters in Glasgow for the 2014
Commonwealth Games to protest the appalling life expancy for local
residents, and the knife crime, drunken violence etc.
By then Scotland will be an independent country.
LOL.
Full of unemployed former Westminster MPs.
|
I'll remind you of the independence bit in 2014! :)
--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate -www.davidhorne.net
(email address on website) "If people think God is interesting, the
onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about.
Otherwise they should just shut up about it." -Richard Dawkins |
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Martin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: ?and a cast of thousands |
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On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:42:05 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
| Quote: | Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:34:34 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
Alan S <nothere@there.com> wrote:
[]
I felt the best real performers, apart from the athletes,
were taken away in Police vans after being arrested in "Free
Tibet" protests.
Fine, except I wonder how the UK media and population will react when
(rather, if) Chinese protesters come to the London olympics and climb up
Nelson's Column to unfurl banners protesting the continuing (and it
likely _will_ be) occupation of Afghanistan (get the Olympic irony?) and
Iraq?
Also, how about some Chinese protesters in Glasgow for the 2014
Commonwealth Games to protest the appalling life expancy for local
residents, and the knife crime, drunken violence etc.
By then Scotland will be an independent country.
LOL.
|
Full of unemployed former Westminster MPs.
--
Martin |
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David Horne, _the_ chance
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: ?and a cast of thousands |
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Alan S <nothere@there.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:34:34 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
Alan S <nothere@there.com> wrote:
[]
I felt the best real performers, apart from the athletes,
were taken away in Police vans after being arrested in "Free
Tibet" protests.
Fine, except I wonder how the UK media and population will react when
(rather, if) Chinese protesters come to the London olympics and climb up
Nelson's Column to unfurl banners protesting the continuing (and it
likely _will_ be) occupation of Afghanistan (get the Olympic irony?) and
Iraq?
Probably very well, by comparison. They may be arrested and
deported if they do it in the way you describe. But they
would not be arrested if they conduct a legal protest;
something beyond the understanding of the Beijing
authorities.
|
I think some locals would get pissed off after a while- and I also think
we have double standards. I notice you questioning China getting the
games in the first place- I assume you had similar misgivings when the
UK got them. Or does occupying countries and causing hundreds of
thousands of deaths get a pass if you're a democracy?
70 children were killed by Nato fire in Afghanistan last week. 70! I
think a lot of us have been completely inured to these figures now- they
hardly even shock any longer.
| Quote: | Also, how about some Chinese protesters in Glasgow for the 2014
Commonwealth Games to protest the appalling life expancy for local
residents, and the knife crime, drunken violence etc.
Sounds like a great idea.
|
Be my guest- and take a flak jacket.
--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate -www.davidhorne.net
(email address on website) "If people think God is interesting, the
onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about.
Otherwise they should just shut up about it." -Richard Dawkins |
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David Horne, _the_ chance
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: ?and a cast of thousands |
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Alan S <nothere@there.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:04:45 +0100, d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
[]
70 children were killed by Nato fire in Afghanistan last week. 70! I
think a lot of us have been completely inured to these figures now- they
hardly even shock any longer.
Point taken - but it's not the point I was making in reply
to the comment.
My point is that you could put what you just wrote on a
placard and march up and down in Hyde Park, or Westminster,
and no-one will arrest you unless you block traffic or you
put someone's eye out with your placard.
|
It depends what the placard says, and MPs have been trying vigorously to
enact legislation to stop protest in certain areas- such as outside
parliament.
| Quote: | As could I in front of Parliament in Canberra or anywhere in
Sydney.
Try doing the same thing on any controversial subject in
Tien an Mien Square - or any public location in mainland
China.
|
That's a given.
| Quote: | PS How many children did Taliban heroin kill this week in
the world?
|
People die from smoking cigarettes, and I don't see the US and UK
bombing tobacco fields or companies.
--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate -www.davidhorne.net
(email address on website) "If people think God is interesting, the
onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about.
Otherwise they should just shut up about it." -Richard Dawkins |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: Re: …and a cast of thousands |
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On Aug 26, 9:52 am, "Pat" <m...@sunmaill.com> wrote:
| Quote: | China does not have the freedom of expression enjoyed in our country.
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Local: Fri, Aug 8 2008 2:22 am
Subject: Re: Olympics Wagering
Icono Clast said:
«My bet is that China will profoundly regret its successful bid to
host
the 2008 Summer Olympics …
«When journalists from the USA, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Japan,
Israel, India, and other countries with a relatively free press, are
told they can't go here and there to report on this or that, they'll
go farther and deeper to get stories that China doesn't want us to
read, hear, or see.
«Wanna bet?»
| Quote: | Icono Clast said:
The average weight of the female USA gymnasts was something like 106
pounds; the Chinese team was about thirty pounds lighter! Yeah, sure,
they were all of qualifying age.
Again you are judging the Chinese using American standards … They don't
have the same nutrition as an American.
|
Do you really believe that athletes, of any country, being trained to
compete in the Olympic Games is not provided with the most healthful
and nutritious of diets?
| Quote: | Maybe if the Americans don't go to McDonalds so much they'd weigh less..
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Did you see the gymnasts? If so, did you see any fat on them? The
fattest to my eye was the 20 year old Chinese gymnast.
Whoops! That was already said:
| Quote: | Now, tell us if you REALLY think that Chinese gymasts--the girls
separated from their parents at an early age--are eating the same
nutrition as an American. Do you really think that American gymnasts go
to McDonald's to eat? Is that how they keep their training standards? And
do you really think that these elite Chinese gymnasts are eating the same
fare as the ordinary Chinese? And, yes, you CAN judge age to a degree by
how someone looks. You can look at facial bone structure, comparative
lengths of other bones, height, and yes, weight. |
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Pat
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: .and a cast of thousands |
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Alan, I was responding to Peter L, not to your post.
Pat in TX |
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Pat
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: Re: .and a cast of thousands |
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| Quote: |
Maybe if the Americans didn't go to McDonalds so much they'd weigh less.
That's a definite!
Gerry
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He was just doing some gratuitous America-bashing, Christine. That's all.
Without a cogent argument, that's his fall-back position.
Pat in TX |
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Dimond Geeza
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: joburg - kruger - pilanesberg - mauritius |
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On 19 Aug, 18:40, Dimond Geeza <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On 8 Aug, 08:14, Marc Lurie <marcREM...@NOSPAM.laradio.co.za> wrote:
On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:31:37 -0700 (PDT), Dimond Geeza
michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I thought it strange that the renowned 'war zone' reporter John
Simpson would bother writing something like that (perhaps thats why
his Namibian holiday was a freebie...)
Actually, I felt the whole tone of the start of the article had a
strange feeling. Almost like there was some kind of agenda.
Do you have gun clubs in SA where I could go and squeeze off a few
rounds (without killing anything) ?
Loads. I'm not sure about the legallity of hiring a gun at a range
anymore, but it used to be perfectly acceptable to try out guns at a
gunshop that has its own range.
I only know of one gunshop with a range in the Johannesburg area
(Guthries Range in Midrand - they aso have one or two bow ranges), but
there are several public access shooting ranges. I usually go to a
range in Knights, Germsiton when I feel the need to make a noise and
make holes in paper. The range in Knights is actually about 7
different ranges for pistol, shotgun, rifle, combat etc.
You could also get hold of some of the clay pigeon clubs and go along
on a weekend for some skeet shooting.
I see the Kwa Maritane lodge in Pilanesberg was burnt to a crisphttp://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2378053,00...
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I survived South Africa 
joburg - kruger - pilanesberg - mauritius
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30237764@N06/ |
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Myk Cameron
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: joburg - kruger - pilanesberg - mauritius |
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"Dimond Geeza" <michaelnewport@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:48a1a48c-d188-4050-a744-4bcdad16c42f@l43g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On 19 Aug, 18:40, Dimond Geeza <michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On 8 Aug, 08:14, Marc Lurie <marcREM...@NOSPAM.laradio.co.za> wrote:
On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:31:37 -0700 (PDT), Dimond Geeza
michaelnewp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I thought it strange that the renowned 'war zone' reporter John
Simpson would bother writing something like that (perhaps thats why
his Namibian holiday was a freebie...)
Actually, I felt the whole tone of the start of the article had a
strange feeling. Almost like there was some kind of agenda.
Do you have gun clubs in SA where I could go and squeeze off a few
rounds (without killing anything) ?
Loads. I'm not sure about the legallity of hiring a gun at a range
anymore, but it used to be perfectly acceptable to try out guns at a
gunshop that has its own range.
I only know of one gunshop with a range in the Johannesburg area
(Guthries Range in Midrand - they aso have one or two bow ranges), but
there are several public access shooting ranges. I usually go to a
range in Knights, Germsiton when I feel the need to make a noise and
make holes in paper. The range in Knights is actually about 7
different ranges for pistol, shotgun, rifle, combat etc.
You could also get hold of some of the clay pigeon clubs and go along
on a weekend for some skeet shooting.
I see the Kwa Maritane lodge in Pilanesberg was burnt to a
crisphttp://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2378053,00...
|
I survived South Africa
joburg - kruger - pilanesberg - mauritius
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30237764@N06/
*****
Excellent! Any tips for things to see/do/avoid in Mauritius? I'm spending
about 9 days there in the first week of January.
Myk |
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Bill Tong
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: Re: joburg - kruger - pilanesberg - mauritius |
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On 8 Sep, 11:10, Frank Hucklenbroich <Hucklenbroic...@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Am Sun, 7 Sep 2008 23:43:24 +1200 schrieb Myk Cameron:
Excellent! Any tips for things to see/do/avoid in Mauritius?
Get a taxi-driver to take you around the island. It's quite cheap, I paid
something like 40 USD for a car and driver per day.
Make sure to visit the botanical guarden at La Vanille, where the have the
giant turtles. You can try crocodile-meat there as well.
If you come to Flic&Flac try one of the nice seafood-restaurants there.
Regards,
Frank
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40 USD sounds cheap..when was that ?
I paid GBP 140 for 5 days car hire last week |
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Frank Hucklenbroich
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: joburg - kruger - pilanesberg - mauritius |
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Am Sun, 7 Sep 2008 23:43:24 +1200 schrieb Myk Cameron:
| Quote: | Excellent! Any tips for things to see/do/avoid in Mauritius?
|
Get a taxi-driver to take you around the island. It's quite cheap, I paid
something like 40 USD for a car and driver per day.
Make sure to visit the botanical guarden at La Vanille, where the have the
giant turtles. You can try crocodile-meat there as well.
If you come to Flic&Flac try one of the nice seafood-restaurants there.
Regards,
Frank |
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