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Ken Roberts
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 Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: Switzerland high passes report |
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Over the last few years I rode up and down lots of the high passes of
Switzerland, mostly riding single-day loop routes. I found lots of fun +
pretty riding (not a surprise), and I'd gladly do lots of it again. This
year I finally connected it all into a continuous route, so I've ridden
every kilometer from Grand St Bernard in the southwest to the Bernina pass
in the southeast, most but not all on paved roads. And because I rode so
much of it as loops, also a second route from east to west. I put together a
set of
reports + suggestions about the high passes:
http://roberts-1.com/b/v/e/08c/#Switzerland_high_passes_08sep
+ map:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=115487569681665383360.0004578dc3f5d6b608529&z=8
(or click the link for the map on the reports page)
The reports have lots of ideas about loop rides and up-and-back climbs that
could be done while spending several days at a single base -- and also ideas
about multi-day "moving on" tours, not just one route, but different
alternatives for most of the stages. I say which roads I liked best and why,
and which parts I didn't like and would avoid -- and I'd be glad to hear
other suggesions (and corrections) for routes + riding.
Surprising for me: Trying to ride every kilometer between southwest +
southeast forced me to "fill in" between passes on some gentle valley roads
and paths -- but I discovered those were rather pretty and fun, and added
variety to my overall experience of Switzerland.
So now I feel more interested to attempt riding all the way across as a
continuous multi-day tour - (but more likely I'll repeat some of my favorite
loops and up-and-back rides).
Ken |
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sergio
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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Gee!
Last week in august I rode solo from Aosta to Stelvio via Martigny-
Pillon-Interlaken-Innertkirchen-Andermatt-Disentis-(then train to La
Punt to save time)-Zernez-Santa Maria-Stelvio-Glorenza
Were we chasing each other?
If so, just too bad!
Sergio
Pisa |
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sergio
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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Nice to read you again, Ken.
My train ride from DIsentis to La Punt was very interesting. I had
cycled in the arean the past, but moving by train along that deserted
canyon was quite an experience that let me discover a Switzerland I
had never suspected to exist.
Barcellonette? No thanks.
A long time ago I did a couple of bike trips over the southern French
Alps and decided I would very much prefer more northern routes.
I realise that you ride almost anywhere, mild and tough terrain as
well.
So, some time, drop again to Tuscany and I'll direct you to one
special climb: San Pellegrino in Alpe, up from Castelnuovo Garfagnana.
Look it up in the meanwhile. Myself I have always been keen at dodging
it, but you are up to the task.
Later
Sergio
Pisa |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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Wow Sergio, that is amazingly similar to my West-East route, and I agree
that if there was one section to skip riding and take the train instead it
would be roughly Chur or Reichenau to la Punt -- or if you want to focus on
riding over passes instead of gentle valleys, then Yes, train from Disentis
to La Punt (though riding the Surselva valley east from Disentis was one of
the areas where I discovered how much I enjoyed riding Switzerland _not_
over the high passes).
| Quote: | Were we chasing each other?
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No because I had a car, so in the middle of my trip I converted my Bike
Friday Project Q from single-rider mode into tandem and spent a week first
climbing and riding with Sharon by Cortina d'Ampezzo, then riding along lake
Como. Then I converted my bike into a single again and climbed the northwest
side of Passo Mortirolo from Mazzo, and Monte Zoncolan from Ovaro before
returning to Switzerland.
I do hope we get an excuse to meet and ride somewhere Sergio. How about . .
.. Col de Parpaillon in France between Embrun and Barcellonette? Two French
guys I met at the Oberalppass said it was very interesting (though better on
a mountain bike). Could do some other rides around Briancon or Susa.
Ken |
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sergio
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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On 22 Ott, 05:35, "Ken Roberts"
| Quote: | Looks big and hard. But not as hard as Mortirolo from Mazzo. (unless it's
unpaved or badly paved)
What's the reward for all the labor?
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The reward? Perhaps descendig along the alternative LOOOONG road
through Castiglione Garfagnana.
| Quote: | I have a bicycling guidebook for the Garfagnana region, but it gave me the
idea that it's mostly for mountain bikes.
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Yes and no.
| Quote: | I'm not _against_ trying Tuscany again -- if you can point me to the best
road riding -- or maybe where to rent a good mountain bike cheap.
. . . (But it seems like it's so much easier for me to find the kinds of
riding I like in Veneto -- and then there's the climbing + hiking on the
non-bicycling days -- and the sci alpinismo touring in non-bicycling
seasons).
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Of course the larger Veneto-Trentino_Alto Adige-Friuli region offers
so much more in terms of high mountain passes. No way to argue.
However there are some beautiful possibilities in Tuscany, only some
of which you have explored in the past.
Sergio
Pisa |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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sergio wrote
| Quote: | Tuscany . . . one special climb: San Pellegrino in Alpe,
up from Castelnuovo Garfagnana.
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Looks big and hard. But not as hard as Mortirolo from Mazzo. (unless it's
unpaved or badly paved)
What's the reward for all the labor?
I have a bicycling guidebook for the Garfagnana region, but it gave me the
idea that it's mostly for mountain bikes.
I'm not _against_ trying Tuscany again -- if you can point me to the best
road riding -- or maybe where to rent a good mountain bike cheap.
.. . . (But it seems like it's so much easier for me to find the kinds of
riding I like in Veneto -- and then there's the climbing + hiking on the
non-bicycling days -- and the sci alpinismo touring in non-bicycling
seasons).
Ken |
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sergio
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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On 22 Ott, 15:10, "Ken Roberts"
Key words for Ken, and others.
Passo del Vestito
Campo Cecina
Carpinelli
Pradarena
Abetone
Radici
Renaio
Monte Serra
Pizzorne
Futa
Muraglione
La Calla
And, yes, I did ride a couple of times all along Cinqueterre.
Stunningly beautyful, much like the Sorrento Riviera.
Sergio
Pisa
P.s. And, across the sea, do not overlook the islands of Corsica and
Sardegna. Very worthwhile to visit.
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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sergio wrote
| Quote: | The reward? Perhaps descendig along the alternative
LOOOONG road through Castiglione Garfagnana.
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That's sounding interesting.
| Quote: | there are some beautiful possibilities in Tuscany, only some
of which you have explored in the past.
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It could happen -- maybe some American rider (who has not yet discovered
Veneto) will insist that I join them for a trip to Tuscany. I gladly admit
there's lots and lots of roads in Tuscany I haven't explored. I do know a
loop on roads by the Cinque Terre which I checked by car once on a rather
rainy day but never got the chance to ride yet. And a quick web search
suggests that the Garfagnana mountains have at least one "via ferrata"
climbing route - (no way to bring a bicycle on that kind of climb).
Ken |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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I know I've never been anywhere near those places in my previous visit to
Tuscany. Many of them are unfindable on Google Maps.
So looks interesting -- I've added them to reference file for Italy.
Ken |
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CWeb
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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On 23 Ott, 20:40, "Ken Roberts" <iKen7Roberts7-nn7_n...@yahoo7.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | I know I've never been anywhere near those places in my previous visit to
Tuscany. Many of them are unfindable on Google Maps.
So looks interesting -- I've added them to reference file for Italy.
Ken
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Qualche info sulle salite alpine e in generale europee: www.salite.ch.
Trovi anche un forum per chiedere dettagli.
Ciao |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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CWeb <castioneweb@gmail.com> wrote
| Quote: | Qualche info sulle salite alpine e in generale europee: www.salite.ch.
Trovi anche un forum per chiedere dettagli.
|
Yes there's lots of helpful info about climbs on that site. And I'd never
looked at the Forums section on it, so thanks for drawing my attention to
that -- it would be interesting to ask a question in English there (since I
know almost no Italian).
But salite.ch does not solve all my problems. Like take the first thing on
Sergio's list:
Passo del Vestito
First, I can't find "Vestito" on Google Maps, nor in the index of my book
TCI Atlante Stradale d'Italia Nord 1:200000. Google Earth has a link to a
photo of "Passo del Vestito" (which does not look like something Sergio
would ride over) -- but the photo does not say where it is located.
I search on salite.ch for "Vestito", and good luck . . . .I find two climbs
for "Passo del Vestito" (but still it doesn't tell the location). One climb
is from "Molino del Riccio". My book TCI Atlante Stradale d'Italia Nord has
several "Molino" entries in its index, but none in Toscana, and no "Molino
del Riccio". (and it's not on Google Maps, not on Google Earth).
The other "Vestito" climb is from "Massa". So I look in TCI Atlante and the
index has two "Massa" entries in Toscana, one in Lucca and one in
Massa-Carrara -- but salite.ch does not say what _province_ the climb is in.
So I don't know.
The good news is that while I was looking for Vestito on my TCI Atlante
Stradale d'Italia map, I found San Pellegrino in Alpe.
Ken
P.S. I think some of the elevation profiles (grafico altimetrico) on
salite.ch might have mistakes -- for example, the elevation profile for
Monte Zoncolan from Ovaro. |
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sergio
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland high passes report |
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On 28 Ott, 03:28, "Ken Roberts" <iKen7Roberts7-nn7_n...@yahoo7.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | But salite.ch does not solve all my problems. Like take the first thing on
Sergio's list:
Passo del Vestito
First, I can't find "Vestito" on Google Maps, nor in the index of my book
TCI Atlante Stradale d'Italia Nord 1:200000. Google Earth has a link to a
photo of "Passo del Vestito" (which does not look like something Sergio
would ride over) -- but the photo does not say where it is located.
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To dispel any doubt.
Passo del Vestito is indeed between Massa and Arni.
I have cycled up there first time back in 1975, I guess. At that time
the road was literally going through the marble quarry at the top and
the tunnel at the summit was narrow and dark: no asphalt up there, no
fine gravel either, but only sharp rocks from the quarry.
Ken, I urge you to cycle that area if for no other reason to see the
stunning and famous marble quarries: check out Galleria del Cipollaio,
Passo del Vestito and Campo Cecina.
Sergio
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: Tuscany bicycling ideas |
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sergio wrote
| Quote: | I urge you to cycle that area if for no other reason to see the
stunning and famous marble quarries: check out Galleria del
Cipollaio, Passo del Vestito and Campo Cecina.
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The good news is that I found that I have a detailed map of the Garfagnana
area.
The problem is that you're confusing my thinking about bicycling in
Toscana -- because your ideas are so different from the usual places visited
by most English-speaking bike tourers and organized group tours. For that
Sharon and I concluded that the actual riding on the roads was better on on
our favorite routes back home, and that we didn't need to fly across an
ocean in order to meet lots of English-speaking non-bicyclists. But now
you're giving a detailed picture of a different Tuscany.
The other problem is that (non-Alitalia) airfares to Milan were so high in
the last couple of years that Sharon and I got in the habit of flying to
Zurich and then driving to northern Italy -- but Tuscany is just too far
(until airfares from NY to Italy get lower, or Alitalia gets stabilized --
better both).
I do have a list of more riding goals for around Piemonte, so perhaps once
I've gotten that far, I could justify driving down to Garfagnana.
Ken |
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sergio
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Tuscany bicycling ideas |
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On 3 Nov, 02:38, "Ken Roberts" <iKen7Roberts7-nn7_n...@yahoo7.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | sergio wrote
The problem is that you're confusing my thinking about bicycling in
Toscana -- because your ideas are so different from the usual places
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God news to my ears, and I take it as a compliment too.
So, since we are at it, let me expand a little more.
There is a beautiful inner region, in the provinces of Firenze and
Arezzo, that would be quite worthwhile exploring. Little traffic,
stunning forests, monestaries and ancient secluded places. Check out
these names: La Verna, Poppi, Camaldoli, Futa, La Calla, San Godenzo,
Muraglione, Stia, Badia Prataglia, Vallombrosa.
You could easily get close to such places by train from Pisa, sparing
yourselves the busy Arno River valley or the, so obvious, Chianti
region.
How to get to Pisa?
By Ryan Air from Glasgow, or London, or Frankfurt, or Alghero.
Yes, from Alghero in Sardegna by Ryan Air, or from Bastia in Corse by
way of ferry.
You got to know that Sardegna and Corse are among the most beautiful
islands in the Mediterranean Sea.
Sergio
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sergio
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Tuscany bicycling ideas |
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On 4 Nov, 15:26, "Ken Roberts" <iKen7Roberts7-nn7_n...@yahoo7.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | I found my copy of the guidebook, Garfagnana by Bicycle, by Lucia + Bruno
Giovanetti.
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Of course I am not acquainted with that book, nor with the trails up
there.
However, I have good friends in Castelnuovo and just about any
question can find an answer.
Beware.
The two main roads going up from Lucca to Castelnuovo are not much
fun, but there are lots of detours, on asphalt, that even I don't
know.
Sergio
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