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Ken Roberts
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 Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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I've gotten to sample riding some of the high passes and mountain roads of
Switzerland, and now I've got some questions about it.
(a) What is your favorite high road or pass to ride? What is it that you
like so much about that one?
(b) What mountain roads in Switzerland do you never want to ride again?
(c) Valais / Wallis canton in southwest Switzerland has lots of spectacular
mountains, and there are several roads that go up into them. Which of those
roads could recommend for riding, like I'm looking for some nice views on
the way up, maybe some cute villages to ride thru, some fun curvy sections
on descent, not too much vehicle traffic.
(d) Gotthard / San Gottardo -- is there a way to ride across that pass
without all those bumpy cobbles on the old road?
(e) Julier pass seems like a pretty pass, not amazingly spectacular but
pleasant + pretty higher up when I've been over it on a car. But I've never
ridden my bike over it because it seems to have lots of high-speed cars, and
some trucks, because it's the shortest road between the Engadin valley and
the autobahn + Zurich. Is there some way to work around that? (Albula pass
was decent for riding, but I didn't like staring at the power transmission
towers higher up).
(f) Lukmanier pass (Lucomagno) -- is it interesting to ride?
Thanks for the help and ideas,
Ken |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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Ken Roberts wrote:
| Quote: | I've gotten to sample riding some of the high passes and mountain
roads of Switzerland, and now I've got some questions about it.
(a) What is your favorite high road or pass to ride? What is it that
you like so much about that one?
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There is only one worth repeating over and over again... and then thee
is the second.
Stelvio and Gavia!!! Don't miss them if you ever ride the Alps.
For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col Ferret on
the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great passes.
http://tinyurl.com/dr4ot
Jobst Brandt |
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Martin Borsje
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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Ken Roberts explained on 17-10-2008 :
| Quote: | I've gotten to sample riding some of the high passes and mountain roads of
Switzerland, and now I've got some questions about it.
(a) What is your favorite high road or pass to ride? What is it that you like
so much about that one?
Große Scheidegg for its remoteness and quietness and viwes on Eiger |
Northface
Nufenen from Ullrichen for its quiteness and steepness
| Quote: | (b) What mountain roads in Switzerland do you never want to ride again?
Simplon and Grand St. Bernard may have a lot of freight traffic - |
choose the moment.
| Quote: | (c) Valais / Wallis canton in southwest Switzerland has lots of spectacular
mountains, and there are several roads that go up into them. Which of those
roads could recommend for riding, like I'm looking for some nice views on the
way up, maybe some cute villages to ride thru, some fun curvy sections on
descent, not too much vehicle traffic.
Col de Sanetsch is a 'must do' |
| Quote: | (d) Gotthard / San Gottardo -- is there a way to ride across that pass
without all those bumpy cobbles on the old road?
Yes - although the 'bumpy' road, Via Tremolo is for going up not that |
bumpy :-)
| Quote: |
(e) Julier pass seems like a pretty pass, not amazingly spectacular but
pleasant + pretty higher up when I've been over it on a car. But I've never
ridden my bike over it because it seems to have lots of high-speed cars, and
some trucks, because it's the shortest road between the Engadin valley and
the autobahn + Zurich. Is there some way to work around that? (Albula pass
was decent for riding, but I didn't like staring at the power transmission
towers higher up).
Julier is not busy with freight at all! |
| Quote: |
(f) Lukmanier pass (Lucomagno) -- is it interesting to ride?
Thanks for the help and ideas,
Ken |
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sergio
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:20 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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Hi Ken,
I vote for Grosse Scheidegg, too. In the area I was told
there is a nice steep road going up from Grndelwald to Kleine
Scheidegg.
Now, sparsely.
Sanetsch is fine and quiet, but there are also so many beautiful roads
that are dead-end (no through traffic) which I have never explored.
Bicyclists are tolerated on the new (Autostrada) San Gottardo.
Luckmanier?: I would avoid.
The one I have come to dodge? Forclaz up from Martigny.
Finally, Jobst must have been in a hurry, this time.
I am surprised that he did not mention the Septimer, to avoid Julier.
Sergio
Pisa |
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mike.a.schwab@gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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sergio
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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On 20 Ott, 21:58, "Ken Roberts" <iKen7Roberts7-nn7_n...@yahoo7.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Since I usually try to ride single-day loop routes, I also rode along the
Brienzersee, and followed Jobst's suggestion that the road on the northwest
side of the lake, and that worked well too.
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I surely do hope you did not duplicate my mistake.
Taking the bike path along the southern side of the Brienzer Lake,
east of Interlaken.
Sergio
Pisa |
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sergio
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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On 20 Ott, 22:20, "Ken Roberts" <iKen7Roberts7-nn7_n...@yahoo7.com>
wrote:
Col de la Seigne I'm
| Quote: | not planning to repeat -- the road on the Italian side was just too rocky at
the time I did it -- but I'm glad I did once.
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Hold on! I rode once only up to Rifugio Elisabetta.
Is the road worse farther up, or did you find it just as bad?
I am thinking of hitting the area this coming june coming from Susa
over Moncenisio, Iseran and the Piccolo.
Sergio
Pisa |
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sergio
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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On 20 Ott, 21:58, "Ken Roberts" <iKen7Roberts7-nn7_n...@yahoo7.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Col de Sanetsch is a 'must do'
Thanks, it's now on my list.
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If it is as I found it a few years ago, be sure you have an electric
lamp at hand.
Sergio
Pisa |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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"Martin Borsje"wrote
| Quote: | Große Scheidegg for its remoteness and quietness and viwes on Eiger
Northface
Yes I had a great day there in September with some early snow on the Eiger |
and the Wetterhorn. Hope to put some photos up from that.
Since I usually try to ride single-day loop routes, I also rode along the
Brienzersee, and followed Jobst's suggestion that the road on the northwest
side of the lake, and that worked well too.
| Quote: | Nufenen from Ullrichen for its quiteness and steepness
I think of Nufenen definitely as quiet -- and more its unrelenting |
steepness, rather than for maximum steepness.
| Quote: | Col de Sanetsch is a 'must do'
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Thanks, it's now on my list.
| Quote: | Simplon and Grand St. Bernard may have a lot of freight traffic - choose
the moment.
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Yes, it worked well for me riding from Orsieres up the north side of Grand
St Bernard by starting very early in the morning. From Martigny to Orsieres
I avoided the problem by climbing over Champex -- which turned out to be
rather pretty.
| Quote: | (d) Gotthard / San Gottardo -- is there a way to ride across that pass
without all those bumpy cobbles on the old road?
Yes - although the 'bumpy' road, Via Tremolo is for going up not that
bumpy 
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Well my touring bike has small wheels in order to by easy to carry in
airline luggage, so I feel the bumps more -- so for me it's good to hear
that there's an alternative.
Ken |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote
| Quote: | Stelvio and Gavia!!! Don't miss them if you ever ride the Alps.
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Stelvio is rather close to Switzerland, and the day Tony and I rode it
last summer our loop went thru Switzerland, so it fits the thread topic. And
I thought it was a really great that day, here's some photos:
http://roberts-1.com/t/b08/itj/k/a
But I think a lot depends on weather and snow cover. Like a German rider I
met in September at Passo Tonale told me he didn't like Stelvio but did like
Gavia -- but admitted that it was a sunny day on Gavia and cloudy on
Stelvio. I myself was unimpressed the first time I climbed the east side of
Stelvio three years ago on a cloudy day with little snow remaining in
September, but very impressed with climbing the east side in June this year
on a sunny day with lots of snow remaining from big late-spring storms.
| Quote: | For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col Ferret
on the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great passes.
|
Yes definitely for those willing to incorporate hiking and/or rough
dirt/gravel (and possible sticky mud) in their bicycle touring. Not just for
the adventure -- the close views of the Mont Blanc massif are very
spectacular. Thanks to the suggestions and web pages of Jobst, I've ridden
over both of them. I will gladly ride again over Col du Grand Ferret (on the
Italy / Switzerland border) in favorable conditions. Col de la Seigne I'm
not planning to repeat -- the road on the Italian side was just too rocky at
the time I did it -- but I'm glad I did once.
Ken |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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sergio wrote
| Quote: | I vote for Grosse Scheidegg, too.
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Good, then I'll add my vote.
| Quote: | In the area I was told there is a nice steep road
going up from Grndelwald to Kleine Scheidegg.
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I doubt that such a road is paved. I don't have mountain bike map for the
Grindelwald area.
(If I really want to ride wilder unpaved stuff closer to higher mountains,
why don't I just rent a serious mountain bike and ride sections of the
official Switzerland mountain bike route #1?)
| Quote: | Bicyclists are tolerated on the new (Autostrada) San Gottardo.
Luckmanier?: I would avoid.
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that's both good + bad for me:
because one of the main reasons I wanted to ride over San Gottardo /
Gotthard was to make a loop with Lucomagno / Lukmanier and Oberalp.
| Quote: | Sanetsch is fine and quiet, but there are also so many beautiful roads
that are dead-end (no through traffic) which I have never explored.
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Sounds like an opportunity for future exploration. I'm happy to start with
Sanetsch - (does it make any sense to continue north from Col du Sanetsch
and descent to Gsteig?)
After that I don't think my first choice would be to ride up to major
resorts like Zermatt or Saas Fee. Somehow the Zinal / Val d'Annivers seems
like a possibility -- maybe because I've never been there.
Ken |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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Ken Roberts <iKen7Roberts7-nn7_no7s@yahoo7.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Stelvio and Gavia!!! Don't miss them if you ever ride the Alps.
Stelvio is rather close to Switzerland, and the day Tony and I rode
it last summer our loop went thru Switzerland, so it fits the thread
topic. And I thought it was a really great that day, here's some
photos:
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http://roberts-1.com/t/b08/itj/k/a
Great photos and wonderful weather. When I ride there I hear Va
Pensiero from Nabucco in my head. I think Giuseppe Verdi must have
been a closet bikie.
http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/0/03/51/43/fond-sonore/va-pensiero.html
| Quote: | But I think a lot depends on weather and snow cover. Like a German
rider I met in September at Passo Tonale told me he didn't like
Stelvio but did like Gavia -- but admitted that it was a sunny day
on Gavia and cloudy on Stelvio. I myself was unimpressed the first
time I climbed the east side of Stelvio three years ago on a cloudy
day with little snow remaining in September, but very impressed with
climbing the east side in June this year on a sunny day with lots of
snow remaining from big late-spring storms.
For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col Ferret
on the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great passes.
|
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i59.html
| Quote: | Yes definitely for those willing to incorporate hiking and/or rough
dirt/gravel (and possible sticky mud) in their bicycle touring. Not
just for the adventure -- the close views of the Mont Blanc massif
are very spectacular. Thanks to the suggestions and web pages of
Jobst, I've ridden over both of them. I will gladly ride again over
Col du Grand Ferret (on the Italy / Switzerland border) in favorable
conditions. Col de la Seigne I'm not planning to repeat -- the road
on the Italian side was just too rocky at the time I did it -- but
I'm glad I did once.
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Then there is the great San Giacomo, from Crevola d'Ossola in the
Simplon to the Val Bedretto on the Nufenen pass.
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i54.html
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i53.html
Va Pensiero!
Jobst Brandt |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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sergio wrote
| Quote: | I rode once only up to Rifugio Elisabetta.
Is the road worse farther up, or did you find it just as bad?
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I think it's more of a hiking trail higher up, on both sides of Col de la
Seigne. The views are really great (on both sides), but I don't think it's
much fun riding it on a road bike. Put me on a mountain bike with a front
suspension and I'd consider it. (and then I'd also consider riding some
other dirt-path passes higher and closer the Mont Blanc massif, e.g.
Bonhomme)
To me Col du Grand Ferret is different, because if you take it southwest to
northeast, then you do lots of hiking and rolling and carrying climbing up
from the refuge, but then the northeast side is mostly ridable -- so I get
the reward of a descent for my labor of hiking.
But on Seigne I'm not a good enough descender on unpaved rocky hiking trails
for it to feel like the downhill is a reward.
Also the times I ride over terrain with substantial bumps, the more likely
that things get loose or break on my bike. Bike repairs are not something I
need to get involved with more times on a big trip outside my home region.
Ken |
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Ken Roberts
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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sergio wrote
| Quote: | I surely do hope you did not duplicate my mistake.
Taking the bike path along the southern side of the
Brienzer Lake, east of Interlaken.
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I took the road on the northwest side of the lake to avoid _my_ mistake of
riding the bike path along the south side my first time doing a loop over
Grosse Scheidegg.
Not only do I believe that Grosse Scheidegg is worth riding again, I've
already ridden it a second time.
Ken |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Switzerland mountain roads questions |
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Ken Roberts wrote:
| Quote: | I rode once only up to Rifugio Elisabetta. Is the road worse
farther up, or did you find it just as bad?
I think it's more of a hiking trail higher up, on both sides of Col
de la Seigne. The views are really great (on both sides), but I
don't think it's much fun riding it on a road bike. Put me on a
mountain bike with a front suspension and I'd consider it. (and then
I'd also consider riding some other dirt-path passes higher and
closer the Mont Blanc massif, e.g. Bonhomme)
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There is only a short steep section on the east approach that is
rocky:
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i60.html
Here it is on the west side, coming and going:
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i59.html
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/f85.html
weather up here is always variable.
| Quote: | To me Col du Grand Ferret is different, because if you take it
southwest to northeast, then you do lots of hiking and rolling and
carrying climbing up from the refuge, but then the northeast side is
mostly ridable -- so I get the reward of a descent for my labor of
hiking. But on Seigne I'm not a good enough descender on unpaved
rocky hiking trails for it to feel like the downhill is a reward.
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The Col Ferret is a lot shorter but in the same east-west valley. For
a young and healthy bikie, its a great adventure and mostly riding
down the east slope.
| Quote: | Also the times I ride over terrain with substantial bumps, the more
likely that things get loose or break on my bike. Bike repairs are
not something I need to get involved with more times on a big trip
outside my home region.
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We were once all young and beautiful:
http://tinyurl.com/5uzfgy
but that doesn't mean you can't go there anymore. I've been going
back for more than 50 years and love it every time. Nostalgia is a
great emotion. I first saw these roads when most were unpaved in
1948. One of my great adventures was staying in Hotel Belvedere in
the year that it reopened after more than 60 years closure. When I
first saw it from our family cars as a youngster, I said I would some
day stay there... I did!
http://rhone.riverama.com/rhoneglacier.php
Jobst Brandt |
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