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Agamemnon
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 Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
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I have drawn up a map of the earth according to traditional Norse cosmology
and the designations of the 9 worlds given by Asatru.
The earth is split into three parts, the upper world or heavens, the middle
world or middle earth and the lower world or underworld. By "Up" Norse
cosmology means East and by "Down" it means West. North and South are where
they are today.
Before Creation
===========
Ginnungagap = The Mediterranean Sea basin
The Upper World
============
Asgard, the home of the Aesir Gods = Troy, The Bifrost Bridge = The
Bospherus
Muspellsheimr, land of Chomasbelus = Lower Egypt and Sinai (proto-Canaanites
and Egyptians)
Alfhemr = Phoenicia and Celicia
The Middle World
============
Midgard = Greece
Vanaheimr, the land of the Vanir Gods = southern Greece and Crete
Jotunheim, the land of the Giants who terrorised Asgard and Midgard =
Pallene northern Greece.
The Lower World
============
Niflheimr = the area around the Italian Alps.
Hel = the Swiss or Helvetic Alps
Svartalfaheimr, the land of the Dark Elves and Dwarves = North West and
Central Africa and Carthage, with the Dwarves being the African Pygmies.
Map
===
http://www.enthymia.co.uk/world.jpg
If the Vanir are the Greek Gods then it is probable that Odin is Poseidon
and Thor is Triton and Freyr who was one of the Vanir is Aphrodite Urania.
Njord another of the Vanir and god of the Sea could be Pontus. The Alfheim
are probably the Elohim or Phoenician Gods. The name Vanir would then be a
corruption of the name of the Orphic God Phanes. It's a tossup weather Vili
or Ve are Hades or Zeus. Ve is Bia in Greek meaning life and therefore
equated with Zeus from Zeis meaning life. Zeus (full title Zeus Kronides
Ophiones) is probably the progenitor of the Vanir and Hades the progenitor
of the Alfar or Elves, which means he must be regarded Mot or Muthus if the
generations and functions are to match up correctly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vili_and_Ve |
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imipak
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
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On Nov 12, 10:42pm, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | I have drawn up a map of the earth according to traditional Norse cosmology
and the designations of the 9 worlds given by Asatru.
The earth is split into three parts, the upper world or heavens, the middle
world or middle earth and the lower world or underworld. By "Up" Norse
cosmology means East and by "Down" it means West. North and South are where
they are today.
Before Creation
==========
Ginnungagap = The Mediterranean Sea basin
The Upper World
===========
Asgard, the home of the Aesir Gods = Troy, The Bifrost Bridge = The
Bospherus
Muspellsheimr, land of Chomasbelus = Lower Egypt and Sinai (proto-Canaanites
and Egyptians)
Alfhemr = Phoenicia and Celicia
The Middle World
===========
Midgard = Greece
Vanaheimr, the land of the Vanir Gods = southern Greece and Crete
Jotunheim, the land of the Giants who terrorised Asgard and Midgard > Pallene northern Greece.
The Lower World
===========
Niflheimr = the area around the Italian Alps.
Hel = the Swiss or Helvetic Alps
Svartalfaheimr, the land of the Dark Elves and Dwarves = North West and
Central Africa and Carthage, with the Dwarves being the African Pygmies.
Map
==
http://www.enthymia.co.uk/world.jpg
If the Vanir are the Greek Gods then it is probable that Odin is Poseidon
and Thor is Triton and Freyr who was one of the Vanir is Aphrodite Urania..
Njord another of the Vanir and god of the Sea could be Pontus. The Alfheim
are probably the Elohim or Phoenician Gods. The name Vanir would then be a
corruption of the name of the Orphic God Phanes. It's a tossup weather Vili
or Ve are Hades or Zeus. Ve is Bia in Greek meaning life and therefore
equated with Zeus from Zeis meaning life. Zeus (full title Zeus Kronides
Ophiones) is probably the progenitor of the Vanir and Hades the progenitor
of the Alfar or Elves, which means he must be regarded Mot or Muthus if the
generations and functions are to match up correctly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vili_and_Ve
|
The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly amusing. They
invaded what is now the Ukraine and Russia, which is hardly something
one does to one's gods. On the whole, your entire article seems to be
complete bullshit. Your equating of the gods demonstrates it, if
nothing else, as you got them so very very wrong. Linguistics is not
an exact science, but where mappings exist, they ARE well-known and
well-established and well-and-truly different from yours. |
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Agamemnon
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
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"imipak" <imipak@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fd6bb6b-a07b-4394-8f07-9a2a0c4c3c44@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 12, 10:42 pm, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | I have drawn up a map of the earth according to traditional Norse
cosmology
and the designations of the 9 worlds given by Asatru.
The earth is split into three parts, the upper world or heavens, the
middle
world or middle earth and the lower world or underworld. By "Up" Norse
cosmology means East and by "Down" it means West. North and South are
where
they are today.
Before Creation
===========
Ginnungagap = The Mediterranean Sea basin
The Upper World
============
Asgard, the home of the Aesir Gods = Troy, The Bifrost Bridge = The
Bospherus
Muspellsheimr, land of Chomasbelus = Lower Egypt and Sinai
(proto-Canaanites
and Egyptians)
Alfhemr = Phoenicia and Celicia
The Middle World
============
Midgard = Greece
Vanaheimr, the land of the Vanir Gods = southern Greece and Crete
Jotunheim, the land of the Giants who terrorised Asgard and Midgard =
Pallene northern Greece.
The Lower World
============
Niflheimr = the area around the Italian Alps.
Hel = the Swiss or Helvetic Alps
Svartalfaheimr, the land of the Dark Elves and Dwarves = North West and
Central Africa and Carthage, with the Dwarves being the African Pygmies.
Map
===
http://www.enthymia.co.uk/world.jpg
If the Vanir are the Greek Gods then it is probable that Odin is Poseidon
and Thor is Triton and Freyr who was one of the Vanir is Aphrodite Urania.
Njord another of the Vanir and god of the Sea could be Pontus. The Alfheim
are probably the Elohim or Phoenician Gods. The name Vanir would then be a
corruption of the name of the Orphic God Phanes. It's a tossup weather
Vili
or Ve are Hades or Zeus. Ve is Bia in Greek meaning life and therefore
equated with Zeus from Zeis meaning life. Zeus (full title Zeus Kronides
Ophiones) is probably the progenitor of the Vanir and Hades the progenitor
of the Alfar or Elves, which means he must be regarded Mot or Muthus if
the
generations and functions are to match up correctly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vili_and_Ve
|
<<<The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly amusing. They>>>
No they would not since their own historians place Asgard at Troy in the
East and Midgard on the other side of the Bospherus in the West.
<<<invaded what is now the Ukraine and Russia, which is hardly something>>>
Where they invaded in the Middle Ages or in your fictitious pre-history is
TOTALLY IRRELEVANT! The Aesir didn't come from Scandinavia. They came from
Asia Minor by their own account. Get used to it.
<<<one does to one's gods. On the whole, your entire article seems to be
complete bullshit. Your equating of the gods demonstrates it, if>>>
You seem to be completely made of bullshit.
<<<nothing else, as you got them so very very wrong. Linguistics is not
an exact science, but where mappings exist, they ARE well-known and
well-established and well-and-truly different from yours.>>>
You don't have the remotest clue what you are talking about. The original
language of the Aesir was Trojan Greek. Get used to it. When names are
transferred from one language to another they DO NOT follow and predefined
laws saying which letter should become which other. They follow the
principle of auditory corruption based on nearest sound matches. 10 scribes
writing down the same name from a foreign language will most likely write it
down 10 different ways. |
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The Doctor
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
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In article <7-2dna8QYvHOUYbUnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>,
Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | I have drawn up a map of the earth according to traditional Norse cosmology
and the designations of the 9 worlds given by Asatru.
The earth is split into three parts, the upper world or heavens, the middle
world or middle earth and the lower world or underworld. By "Up" Norse
cosmology means East and by "Down" it means West. North and South are where
they are today.
Before Creation
===========
Ginnungagap = The Mediterranean Sea basin
The Upper World
============
Asgard, the home of the Aesir Gods = Troy, The Bifrost Bridge = The
Bospherus
Muspellsheimr, land of Chomasbelus = Lower Egypt and Sinai (proto-Canaanites
and Egyptians)
Alfhemr = Phoenicia and Celicia
The Middle World
============
Midgard = Greece
Vanaheimr, the land of the Vanir Gods = southern Greece and Crete
Jotunheim, the land of the Giants who terrorised Asgard and Midgard =
Pallene northern Greece.
The Lower World
============
Niflheimr = the area around the Italian Alps.
Hel = the Swiss or Helvetic Alps
Svartalfaheimr, the land of the Dark Elves and Dwarves = North West and
Central Africa and Carthage, with the Dwarves being the African Pygmies.
Map
===
http://www.enthymia.co.uk/world.jpg
If the Vanir are the Greek Gods then it is probable that Odin is Poseidon
and Thor is Triton and Freyr who was one of the Vanir is Aphrodite Urania.
Njord another of the Vanir and god of the Sea could be Pontus. The Alfheim
are probably the Elohim or Phoenician Gods. The name Vanir would then be a
corruption of the name of the Orphic God Phanes. It's a tossup weather Vili
or Ve are Hades or Zeus. Ve is Bia in Greek meaning life and therefore
equated with Zeus from Zeis meaning life. Zeus (full title Zeus Kronides
Ophiones) is probably the progenitor of the Vanir and Hades the progenitor
of the Alfar or Elves, which means he must be regarded Mot or Muthus if the
generations and functions are to match up correctly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vili_and_Ve
|
What a Hell of a description.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Mery Christmas 2008 and HAppy New Year 2009 |
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solar penguin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
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Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | "imipak" <imipak@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fd6bb6b-a07b-4394-8f07-9a2a0c4c3c44@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly amusing.
They
No they would not since their own historians place Asgard at Troy in
the East and Midgard on the other side of the Bospherus in the West.
|
Historians, plural? So far you've only named one Norse historian who
believed it, and you've refused to name his source for that idea despite
repeated requests.
| Quote: |
You don't have the remotest clue what you are talking about. The
original language of the Aesir was Trojan Greek. Get used to it.
|
Any linguistic or philological evidence to support that?
| Quote: | When
names are transferred from one language to another they DO NOT follow
and predefined laws saying which letter should become which other.
They follow the principle of auditory corruption based on nearest
sound matches. 10 scribes writing down the same name from a foreign
language will most likely write it down 10 different ways.
|
But you were claiming Grimm's Law applied to prehistoric British place
names earlier. If so, when did predefined laws stop applying to place
names? |
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Agamemnon
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
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"solar penguin" <solar.penguin@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh1ja$jvc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
| Quote: |
Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"imipak" <imipak@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fd6bb6b-a07b-4394-8f07-9a2a0c4c3c44@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly amusing.
They
No they would not since their own historians place Asgard at Troy in
the East and Midgard on the other side of the Bospherus in the West.
Historians, plural? So far you've only named one Norse historian who
believed it, and you've refused to name his source for that idea despite
repeated requests.
|
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
| Quote: |
You don't have the remotest clue what you are talking about. The
original language of the Aesir was Trojan Greek. Get used to it.
Any linguistic or philological evidence to support that?
|
The historical evidence says it was. Get used to it.
| Quote: |
When
names are transferred from one language to another they DO NOT follow
and predefined laws saying which letter should become which other.
They follow the principle of auditory corruption based on nearest
sound matches. 10 scribes writing down the same name from a foreign
language will most likely write it down 10 different ways.
But you were claiming Grimm's Law applied to prehistoric British place
names earlier. If so, when did predefined laws stop applying to place
names?
|
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR! |
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| Back to top |
imipak
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
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On Nov 13, 5:47 am, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | "solar penguin" <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh9dj$9fe$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"solar penguin" <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh1ja$jvc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fd6bb6b-a07b-4394-8f07-9a2a0c4c3c44@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly amusing.
They
No they would not since their own historians place Asgard at Troy in
the East and Midgard on the other side of the Bospherus in the West.
Historians, plural? So far you've only named one Norse historian who
believed it, and you've refused to name his source for that idea
despite repeated requests.
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
Don't you even read your own posts before you send them? You have named
only one Norse historian who advanced this theory: Snorri Sturluson. If
I'm wrong you have named more, then please point to the post where you did
it.
There are others who went before him who formed the historical consensus.
You also refused to name his source. Again, if I'm wrong you have named
No I did not. His source was the Elder Edda and other assorted Norse
historical texts and poems as I stated originally.
it, then please point to the post where you did it.
You don't have the remotest clue what you are talking about. The
original language of the Aesir was Trojan Greek. Get used to it.
Any linguistic or philological evidence to support that?
The historical evidence says it was. Get used to it.
Historical evidence isn't much use without any real evidence to back it
up. So, once again, is there any linguistic or philological evidence to
support that?
I have already proven the chronology beyond question. I have also proven the
Gods of the Greeks, Norsemen, Hindus and Phoenicians were identical.
Ve = Via (life) = Zeis (life) = Zeus
Vili = Vul = Baal = Baal Hadad = Adodus = Attis = Hades
Odin = (Pos)eidon = Poseidon
Borr = Brahma = Kronos
Buri = Varuna = Uranus
Aesir = Asians
Vanir = named after Phanes grandfather of Uranus aka. Ophion.
Thrudgelmir = Tartarus father of the giants
Freyja = Freda = Aphrodite, aka. Kypris eventually to become Kybele.
Bear in mind that if the pilologists are correct, Greek contains a large
number of unique non-IndoEuropean load words, possibly from the original
Minoan and Pelasgian cultures which were conquered by the early Greeks.
The Minoans and Pelasgians were Greeks you idiot. Herodotus makes it
perfectly clear that Greek is a dialect of Pelasgian. Maybe you are getting
them mixed up with the Eteocretans.
So if Norse really was descended from Greek, then it should have similar
words instead of standard IndoEuropean-derived ones. Does it?
But you were claiming Grimm's Law applied to prehistoric British
place names earlier. If so, when did predefined laws stop applying
to place names?
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
You really don't read your own posts before you send them, do you? You
claimed Grimms' Law was responsible for the shift from "Atlantis" to
"London", even though this contradicts your belief that London was named
after King Lud. And, of course, it also contradicts what Grimm himself
actually wrote in his Law.
NO IT DOES NOT! Before Lud, London was called Trioa Nova by Brutus. Lud
changed the name back to London which was his own name and that of Atlantis.
Or was that the fake impostor up to her tricks again?
|
To quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion
"*Dyēus Ph2tēr is the god of the day-lit sky and the chief god of the
Indo-European pantheon. The name survives (p. 409, 431, Oxford Intro.)
in Greek Zeus with a vocative form Zeu patēr; Latin Jūpiter (from the
archaic Latin Iovis pater) and Dispater (Dis is actually from the
Latin word dives meaning rich), Sanskrit Dyáus Pitā, and Illyrian Dei-
pátrous."
As you can see, there is no reference to Dyeus Phter meaning "Life",
does not follow the phonetic changes described by Agamemnon and bears
no resemblance to Va.
What about Poseidon and Odin?
To quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poseidon
"In Greek mythology, Poseidon (Greek: Ποσειδῶν; Latin: Neptūnus) was
the god of the sea and, as "Earth-Shaker," of earthquakes. The name of
the god Nethuns in Etruscan was adopted in Latin for Neptune in Roman
mythology: both were sea gods analogous to Poseidon. Linear B tablets
show that Poseidon was venerated at Pylos and Thebes in pre-Olympian
Bronze Age Greece, but he was integrated into the Olympian gods as the
brother of Zeus and Hades."
To quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin
"Odin (IPA: /ˈoʊdɪn/ from Old Norse Óðinn), is considered the chief
god in Norse paganism. Homologous with the Anglo-Saxon Wōden and the
Old High German Wotan, it is descended from Proto-Germanic *Wōđinaz or
*Wōđanaz. The name Odin is generally accepted as the modern
translation; although, in some cases, older translations of his name
may be used or preferred. His name is related to óðr, meaning "fury,
excitation", besides "mind", or "poetry". His role, like many of the
Norse gods, is complex. He is associated with wisdom, war, battle, and
death, and also magic, poetry, prophecy, victory, and the hunt."
As you can see, totally unconnected etymologies.
What of Aesir?
To quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesir
"In Old Norse, áss (or ǫ́ss, ás, plural æsir, feminine ásynja,
feminine plural ásynjur) is the term denoting one of the principal
gods of the pantheon of Norse paganism. They include many of the major
figures, such as Odin, Frigg, Thor, Baldr and Tyr. They are one of the
two groups of gods, the other being the Vanir. In Norse mythology, the
two are described as having waged war against one another in the Æsir-
Vanir War, resulting in the unification of the two into a single
tribe of gods.
"The cognate term in Old English is ōs , denoting a god in Anglo-Saxon
paganism. The Latinised Gothic term used by Jordanes is anses. They
continue the hypothetical Proto-Germanic *ansuz form. The a-rune ᚫ was
named after the æsir. Unlike Old English god (and Old Norse goð), the
term ōs (áss) was never adopted into Christian use."
Then, a little later in the article:
"The word áss, Proto-Germanic *ansuz is believed to be derived from
Proto-Indo-European *ansu-, related to Sanskrit asura and Avestan
ahura.
[edit] Germanic
Old Norse áss has the genitive áss or ásar, the accusative æsi and
ásu. In genitival compounds, it takes the form ása-, e.g. in Ása-Þórr
"Thor of the Aesir", besides ás- found in ás-brú "bridge of the
gods" (the rainbow), ás-garðr, ás-kunnigr "akin to the gods", ás-liðar
"champion of the gods", ás-mogin "divine strength" (especially of
Thor), ás-móðr "divine wrath" etc. Landâs "national god" (patrium
numen) is the title of Thor, while it is Odin who is "the" ás, and
given the title allmáttki ás "almighty god".
The feminine is ás-ynja (plural ásynjur). The feminine -ynja suffix is
known from a few other nouns denoting female animals, such as apynja
"simia", vargynja "lupa". The word for "goddess" is not attested
outside of Old Norse, but since the -ynja suffix is cognate to Old
High German -inna (Modern German -in), an Old High German *ansinna has
been reconstructed, from a Proto-Germanic *ansunja.
The latinization of Danish Aslak as Ansleicus indicates that the
nasalization in the first syllable persisted into the 9th century.
The cognate Old English form to áss is ōs, preserved only as a prefix
Ōs- in personal names, and as the genitive plural ēsa (ēsa gescot and
ylfa gescot, "the shots of anses and of elves", jaculum divorum et
geniorum). Jordanes has anses for the gods of the Goths. The Proto-
Germanic word was *ansu-z, with a plural ''*ansiwiz. The
(reconstructed) Old High German terms given by Grimm are ans, plural
anseis, ensî. Old Saxon ôs, plural ês.
Grimm's Deutsches Wörterbuch under Ans (plural Ens) lists a noun
meaning tignum, jugum ("stave, yoke"), in Bavarian and Tyrolian
dialect denoting barrel staves, cognate to Gothic ans for δοκος "beam"
and Old Norse áss "pole, beam, mountain-ridge". Grimm considers this
word etymologically identical to áss "god", as he explains in his
Deutsche Mythologie:
whether because the mighty gods were thought of as joist, rafter and
ceiling of the sky, or that the notions of jugum and mountain-ridge
were associated with them, for âs is especially used of jugum terræ,
mountain-ridge"
As you can see, no linguist, Grimm included, believes or believed
Aesir to be in any way related to Asia.
As far as I'm concerned, that blows the entire "Norse are Trojans"
theory out of the water. The words simply don't connect, their
earliest recorded forms differ from the ones Agamemnon uses, and the
meanings of the words differ far too much from the meanings Agamemnon
thinks they should have. |
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imipak
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
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On Nov 13, 3:45am, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | "solar penguin" <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh1ja$jvc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fd6bb6b-a07b-4394-8f07-9a2a0c4c3c44@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com....
The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly amusing.
They
No they would not since their own historians place Asgard at Troy in
----------------------------------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^ |
Historians is a plural, I believe, so you would deny that you wrote
this post?
| Quote: | the East and Midgard on the other side of the Bospherus in the West.
Historians, plural? So far you've only named one Norse historian who
believed it, and you've refused to name his source for that idea despite
repeated requests.
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
You don't have the remotest clue what you are talking about. The
original language of the Aesir was Trojan Greek. Get used to it.
Any linguistic or philological evidence to support that?
The historical evidence says it was. Get used to it.
When
names are transferred from one language to another they DO NOT follow
and predefined laws saying which letter should become which other.
They follow the principle of auditory corruption based on nearest
sound matches. 10 scribes writing down the same name from a foreign
language will most likely write it down 10 different ways.
But you were claiming Grimm's Law applied to prehistoric British place
names earlier. If so, when did predefined laws stop applying to place
names?
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR! |
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solar penguin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
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Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | "solar penguin" <solar.penguin@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh1ja$jvc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"imipak" <imipak@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fd6bb6b-a07b-4394-8f07-9a2a0c4c3c44@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly amusing.
They
No they would not since their own historians place Asgard at Troy in
the East and Midgard on the other side of the Bospherus in the West.
Historians, plural? So far you've only named one Norse historian who
believed it, and you've refused to name his source for that idea
despite repeated requests.
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
|
Don't you even read your own posts before you send them? You have named
only one Norse historian who advanced this theory: Snorri Sturluson. If
I'm wrong you have named more, then please point to the post where you
did it.
You also refused to name his source. Again, if I'm wrong you have named
it, then please point to the post where you did it.
| Quote: | You don't have the remotest clue what you are talking about. The
original language of the Aesir was Trojan Greek. Get used to it.
Any linguistic or philological evidence to support that?
The historical evidence says it was. Get used to it.
|
Historical evidence isn't much use without any real evidence to back it
up. So, once again, is there any linguistic or philological evidence to
support that?
Bear in mind that if the pilologists are correct, Greek contains a large
number of unique non-IndoEuropean load words, possibly from the original
Minoan and Pelasgian cultures which were conquered by the early Greeks.
So if Norse really was descended from Greek, then it should have similar
words instead of standard IndoEuropean-derived ones. Does it?
| Quote: |
But you were claiming Grimm's Law applied to prehistoric British
place names earlier. If so, when did predefined laws stop applying
to place names?
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
|
You really don't read your own posts before you send them, do you? You
claimed Grimms' Law was responsible for the shift from "Atlantis" to
"London", even though this contradicts your belief that London was named
after King Lud. And, of course, it also contradicts what Grimm himself
actually wrote in his Law.
Or was that the fake impostor up to her tricks again? |
|
| |
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Agamemnon
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
|
|
"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message
news:7-2dna8QYvHOUYbUnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
| Quote: | I have drawn up a map of the earth according to traditional Norse cosmology
and the designations of the 9 worlds given by Asatru.
The earth is split into three parts, the upper world or heavens, the
middle world or middle earth and the lower world or underworld. By "Up"
Norse cosmology means East and by "Down" it means West. North and South
are where they are today.
Before Creation
===========
Ginnungagap = The Mediterranean Sea basin
The Upper World
============
Asgard, the home of the Aesir Gods = Troy, The Bifrost Bridge = The
Bospherus
Muspellsheimr, land of Chomasbelus = Lower Egypt and Sinai
(proto-Canaanites and Egyptians)
Alfhemr = Phoenicia and Celicia
The Middle World
============
Midgard = Greece
Vanaheimr, the land of the Vanir Gods = southern Greece and Crete
Jotunheim, the land of the Giants who terrorised Asgard and Midgard =
Pallene northern Greece.
The Lower World
============
Niflheimr = the area around the Italian Alps.
Hel = the Swiss or Helvetic Alps
Svartalfaheimr, the land of the Dark Elves and Dwarves = North West and
Central Africa and Carthage, with the Dwarves being the African Pygmies.
Map
===
http://www.enthymia.co.uk/world.jpg
If the Vanir are the Greek Gods then it is probable that Odin is Poseidon
and Thor is Triton and Freyr who was one of the Vanir is Aphrodite Urania.
Njord another of the Vanir and god of the Sea could be Pontus. The Alfheim
are probably the Elohim or Phoenician Gods. The name Vanir would then be a
corruption of the name of the Orphic God Phanes. It's a tossup weather
Vili or Ve are Hades or Zeus. Ve is Bia in Greek meaning life and
therefore equated with Zeus from Zeis meaning life. Zeus (full title Zeus
Kronides Ophiones) is probably the progenitor of the Vanir and Hades the
progenitor of the Alfar or Elves, which means he must be regarded Mot or
Muthus if the generations and functions are to match up correctly.
|
On second thoughts Hades is more likely to be Baal Hadad, ie. Adodus = Attis
= Hades and Baal is identical to Vul = Vili.
According to the Baal Epic, Baal Hadad defeated Mot with the help of Astarte
and retuned to the land of the living, so he'd sort of be a God of the
underworld like Adonis.
Sorted!
| Quote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vili_and_Ve |
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Agamemnon
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
|
|
"solar penguin" <solar.penguin@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh9dj$9fe$1@news.eternal-september.org...
| Quote: |
Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"solar penguin" <solar.penguin@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh1ja$jvc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"imipak" <imipak@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fd6bb6b-a07b-4394-8f07-9a2a0c4c3c44@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly amusing.
They
No they would not since their own historians place Asgard at Troy in
the East and Midgard on the other side of the Bospherus in the West.
Historians, plural? So far you've only named one Norse historian who
believed it, and you've refused to name his source for that idea
despite repeated requests.
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
Don't you even read your own posts before you send them? You have named
only one Norse historian who advanced this theory: Snorri Sturluson. If
I'm wrong you have named more, then please point to the post where you did
it.
|
There are others who went before him who formed the historical consensus.
| Quote: |
You also refused to name his source. Again, if I'm wrong you have named
|
No I did not. His source was the Elder Edda and other assorted Norse
historical texts and poems as I stated originally.
| Quote: | it, then please point to the post where you did it.
You don't have the remotest clue what you are talking about. The
original language of the Aesir was Trojan Greek. Get used to it.
Any linguistic or philological evidence to support that?
The historical evidence says it was. Get used to it.
Historical evidence isn't much use without any real evidence to back it
up. So, once again, is there any linguistic or philological evidence to
support that?
|
I have already proven the chronology beyond question. I have also proven the
Gods of the Greeks, Norsemen, Hindus and Phoenicians were identical.
Ve = Via (life) = Zeis (life) = Zeus
Vili = Vul = Baal = Baal Hadad = Adodus = Attis = Hades
Odin = (Pos)eidon = Poseidon
Borr = Brahma = Kronos
Buri = Varuna = Uranus
Aesir = Asians
Vanir = named after Phanes grandfather of Uranus aka. Ophion.
Thrudgelmir = Tartarus father of the giants
Freyja = Freda = Aphrodite, aka. Kypris eventually to become Kybele.
| Quote: |
Bear in mind that if the pilologists are correct, Greek contains a large
number of unique non-IndoEuropean load words, possibly from the original
Minoan and Pelasgian cultures which were conquered by the early Greeks.
|
The Minoans and Pelasgians were Greeks you idiot. Herodotus makes it
perfectly clear that Greek is a dialect of Pelasgian. Maybe you are getting
them mixed up with the Eteocretans.
| Quote: | So if Norse really was descended from Greek, then it should have similar
words instead of standard IndoEuropean-derived ones. Does it?
But you were claiming Grimm's Law applied to prehistoric British
place names earlier. If so, when did predefined laws stop applying
to place names?
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
You really don't read your own posts before you send them, do you? You
claimed Grimms' Law was responsible for the shift from "Atlantis" to
"London", even though this contradicts your belief that London was named
after King Lud. And, of course, it also contradicts what Grimm himself
actually wrote in his Law.
|
NO IT DOES NOT! Before Lud, London was called Trioa Nova by Brutus. Lud
changed the name back to London which was his own name and that of Atlantis.
| Quote: |
Or was that the fake impostor up to her tricks again?
|
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Zarbiface
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
|
|
Agamemnon wrote:
| Quote: | I have drawn up a map of the earth according to traditional Norse
cosmology and the designations of the 9 worlds given by Asatru.
|
Is your Giro late again? |
|
| |
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solar penguin
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
|
|
Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | "solar penguin" <solar.penguin@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh9dj$9fe$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"solar penguin" <solar.penguin@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh1ja$jvc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"imipak" <imipak@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fd6bb6b-a07b-4394-8f07-9a2a0c4c3c44@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly
amusing.
No they would not since their own historians place Asgard at Troy
in the East and Midgard on the other side of the Bospherus in the
West.
Historians, plural? So far you've only named one Norse historian
who believed it, and you've refused to name his source for that
idea despite repeated requests.
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
Don't you even read your own posts before you send them? You have
named only one Norse historian who advanced this theory: Snorri
Sturluson. If I'm wrong you have named more, then please point to
the post where you did it.
There are others who went before him who formed the historical
consensus.
|
So you said. But you haven't actually named any of these others. If
I'm wrong and you have named them, then please point to the post where
you did it.
| Quote: |
You also refused to name his source. Again, if I'm wrong you have
named
No I did not. His source was the Elder Edda and other assorted Norse
historical texts and poems as I stated originally.
|
But you didn't mention the Eldar Edda previously, just some vague,
generic waffle about historic poems. If I'm wrong and you did mention
it, then please point to the post where you did it.
But anyway, never mind. You've mentioned it now. Thank you. Please
can you quote the passage in the Elder Edda where it explicitly makes
the connection between Troy and Asgard.
| Quote: |
Historical evidence isn't much use without any real evidence to back
it up. So, once again, is there any linguistic or philological
evidence to support that?
I have already proven the chronology beyond question.
|
Then why am I still asking questions?
| Quote: | I have also
proven the Gods of the Greeks, Norsemen, Hindus and Phoenicians were
identical.
|
You've proven that their names have some letters in common. That
doesn't automtically prove they're identical.
Let's try a thought experiment. This is just a bit of fun, but it might
illustrate some interesting points, so bear with me.
Imagine that in 3,500 years time, a group of historians is trying to
piece together the lost, forgotten history of Doctor Who. (Well, it
_could_ happen!)
Most of the discs, tapes and books have been lost, but the reserchers
come across references to William Hartnell as the first Doctor. But
there are also some references to Richard Hurndall playing the first
Doctor. How can that be? Well, the names are fairly similar, so maybe
they're the same person? Maybe his real name got corrupted somehow?
There are also references to both Tom Baker and Colin Baker playing a
Doctor adjacent to Peter Davison's. Can these really be two different
actors? The names are almost identical! Isn't it more likely they're
really one man called something like Tom Colin Baker?
And then there are references that Elizabeth Shaw or Elizabeth Sladen
was Pertwee's companion for one season only. Again, wouldn't the
historians assume that these are identical, one woman whose name was
corrupted with time?
You can see the dangers of trying to argue that similar names in similar
circumstances automatically mean the same person. Real life just
doesn't work that way.
| Quote: | Bear in mind that if the pilologists are correct, Greek contains a
large number of unique non-IndoEuropean load words, possibly from
the original Minoan and Pelasgian cultures which were conquered by
the early Greeks.
The Minoans and Pelasgians were Greeks you idiot.
|
Do you mean they were Greeks genetically or Greeks culturally?
| Quote: | Herodotus makes it
perfectly clear that Greek is a dialect of Pelasgian. Maybe you are
getting them mixed up with the Eteocretans.
|
Well, I did only mention Pelasgian as a possibility. I'm no expert, and
I can't remember all the details. Anyway, the important thing is that
Greek had a lot of non-IndoEuropean loan words from somewhere. It
doesn't make much difference whether they're from the Etocretans or
somewhere else.
Are these loan words also present in Norse?
| Quote: | So if Norse really was descended from Greek, then it should have
similar words instead of standard IndoEuropean-derived ones. Does
it?
But you were claiming Grimm's Law applied to prehistoric British
place names earlier. If so, when did predefined laws stop applying
to place names?
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
You really don't read your own posts before you send them, do you?
You claimed Grimms' Law was responsible for the shift from
"Atlantis" to "London", even though this contradicts your belief
that London was named after King Lud. And, of course, it also
contradicts what Grimm himself actually wrote in his Law.
NO IT DOES NOT! Before Lud, London was called Trioa Nova by Brutus.
Lud changed the name back to London which was his own name and that
of Atlantis.
|
But you _did_ say that Grimms' Law was responsible for the shift from
"Atlantis" to "London". You're not denying that, are you? |
|
| |
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| Back to top |
imipak
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
|
|
On Nov 13, 5:43pm, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | "solar penguin" <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfhfm1$h4c$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"solar penguin" <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh9dj$9fe$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"solar penguin" <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:gfh1ja$jvc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Agamemnon <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
"imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fd6bb6b-a07b-4394-8f07-9a2a0c4c3c44@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
The Norse would find your idea that "up" = "east" highly
amusing.
No they would not since their own historians place Asgard at Troy
in the East and Midgard on the other side of the Bospherus in the
West.
Historians, plural? So far you've only named one Norse historian
who believed it, and you've refused to name his source for that
idea despite repeated requests.
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
Don't you even read your own posts before you send them? You have
named only one Norse historian who advanced this theory: Snorri
Sturluson. If I'm wrong you have named more, then please point to
the post where you did it.
There are others who went before him who formed the historical
consensus.
So you said. But you haven't actually named any of these others. If
I don't need to. They were the consensus and the consensus was undisputed..
I'm wrong and you have named them, then please point to the post where you
did it.
You also refused to name his source. Again, if I'm wrong you have
named
No I did not. His source was the Elder Edda and other assorted Norse
historical texts and poems as I stated originally.
But you didn't mention the Eldar Edda previously, just some vague,
Yes I did.
generic waffle about historic poems. If I'm wrong and you did mention
Poppycock.
|
Prediction #1 has been met.
| Quote: | it, then please point to the post where you did it.
But anyway, never mind. You've mentioned it now. Thank you. Please can
you quote the passage in the Elder Edda where it explicitly makes the
connection between Troy and Asgard.
Get an education you idiot. It is clear from your above comments that you
don't even have the remotest clue about the subject and I am not here to
explain it to you.
|
Ok, good, failure to clarify was one of my predictions and it looks
like this too will come true as predicted by The Great Imipak,
Foreteller Of Future Posts.
| Quote: | Historical evidence isn't much use without any real evidence to back
it up. So, once again, is there any linguistic or philological
evidence to support that?
I have already proven the chronology beyond question.
Then why am I still asking questions?
Because you don't have a clue about Norse history. I am not here to explain
it to you. I am he to talk to people who already know.
|
I have studied Norse history. In depth. How in-depth? Well, I can tell
you the precise vegetable material used to produce the various dyes
they used. I can tell you exactly how Longhouses were built. I can
tell you why Longships have detachable prow figures. I can tell you
the shape and design of Norse helmets. I can tell you how goldsmithing
was done. I can tell you the extent of both their military and their
trading empires. I can tell you the legend of hnefatafl and the
symbolism involved. I can tell you where to find the serpents in the
sword. I can read/write Older and Younger Futhark runes fluently. I
can tell you where in Newfoundland the Norse landed and what happened
to their camp. I know many of the Sagas, the history and ultimate fate
of their Greenland settlement, the impact they had on Irish and
British history, the battles of King Knut against King Alfred the
Great (which, incidentally, disproves any notion of a united Britain
at that time, as Knut owned one half, Alfred the other), the rituals
and ceremonies of Odinism, the practices of tablet weaving and the use
of the vertical loom, the legends concerning the Wild Hunt, the
various gods and goddesses, how many founding families there were in
Norway, and so forth. These things I know.
Now, compare that with your knowledge of Norse history. Zilch. Nada.
Nothing. Not one single, solitary shred. Your knowledge doesn't extend
to a single one of these topics. My knowledge is backed by facts -
facts from the Norse themselves, facts from Living History, facts from
archaeology, facts from specialists. Your "knowledge" - as I've shown
with your god name "translations" - is the work of a deluded, drug-
addled village idiot.
| Quote: | I have also
proven the Gods of the Greeks, Norsemen, Hindus and Phoenicians were
identical.
You've proven that their names have some letters in common. That doesn't
automtically prove they're identical.
Stop being an idiot. I have proven that their names are the same and that
they lived at exactly the same time and they took part in exactly the same
events. That's more than enough to prove they are identical.
|
No you haven't, on any of those points, and I have already shown you
why you are wrong.
| Quote: | Let's try a thought experiment. This is just a bit of fun, but it might
illustrate some interesting points, so bear with me.
No lets not.
|
You cannot bear criticism or question because you know your ideas are
as sound as tissue paper in a category 5 hurricane.
| Quote: | Imagine that in 3,500 years time, a group of historians is trying to piece
together the lost, forgotten history of Doctor Who. (Well, it _could_
happen!)
Most of the discs, tapes and books have been lost, but the reserchers come
across references to William Hartnell as the first Doctor. But there are
also some references to Richard Hurndall playing the first Doctor. How
can that be? Well, the names are fairly similar, so maybe they're the
same person? Maybe his real name got corrupted somehow?
There are also references to both Tom Baker and Colin Baker playing a
Doctor adjacent to Peter Davison's. Can these really be two different
actors? The names are almost identical! Isn't it more likely they're
really one man called something like Tom Colin Baker?
And then there are references that Elizabeth Shaw or Elizabeth Sladen was
Pertwee's companion for one season only. Again, wouldn't the historians
assume that these are identical, one woman whose name was corrupted with
time?
You can see the dangers of trying to argue that similar names in similar
circumstances automatically mean the same person. Real life just doesn't
work that way.
STOP BEING AN IDIOT!
|
Do I get bonus marks for predicting your "shouting" accurately on
multiple posts?
| Quote: | Bear in mind that if the pilologists are correct, Greek contains a
large number of unique non-IndoEuropean load words, possibly from
the original Minoan and Pelasgian cultures which were conquered by
the early Greeks.
The Minoans and Pelasgians were Greeks you idiot.
Do you mean they were Greeks genetically or Greeks culturally?
Both.
|
They were certainly not genetically. That is well-known. There is no
basis for believing they were culturally, due to the Greek Dark Ages.
| Quote: | Herodotus makes it
perfectly clear that Greek is a dialect of Pelasgian. Maybe you are
getting them mixed up with the Eteocretans.
Well, I did only mention Pelasgian as a possibility. I'm no expert, and I
can't remember all the details. Anyway, the important thing is that
This is not a question of you remembering. It's a question of you knowing
nothing to begin with.
|
Flattery will get you nowhere.
| Quote: | Greek had a lot of non-IndoEuropean loan words from somewhere. It doesn't
make much difference whether they're from the Etocretans or somewhere
else.
Are these loan words also present in Norse?
Why should they be if they are lone words. If they are not lone words but
words from Phoenician, which there are plenty of which are clearly not lone
words and also appear in Norse and other Indo-European languages then the
answer is yes.
|
Well, the answer is that your "spellchecker" can't tell the difference
between loan and lone, and that no they are not present in Norse,
because they aren't Greeks.
| Quote: | So if Norse really was descended from Greek, then it should have
similar words instead of standard IndoEuropean-derived ones. Does
it?
But you were claiming Grimm's Law applied to prehistoric British
place names earlier. If so, when did predefined laws stop applying
to place names?
I said nothing of the kind. LIAR!
You really don't read your own posts before you send them, do you? You
claimed Grimms' Law was responsible for the shift from
"Atlantis" to "London", even though this contradicts your belief
that London was named after King Lud. And, of course, it also
contradicts what Grimm himself actually wrote in his Law.
NO IT DOES NOT! Before Lud, London was called Trioa Nova by Brutus.
Lud changed the name back to London which was his own name and that
of Atlantis.
But you _did_ say that Grimms' Law was responsible for the shift from
"Atlantis" to "London". You're not denying that, are you?
Grimm's Law is the law of consonantal shift. It is a general law affecting
all Indo-European languages. T shifts to D from Atlantis to London. Since we
don't have any other Atlantian words the law cannot be precisely quantified
by any rules. Since Britain was invaded by wave upon wave of foreigners,
rules probably wouldn't work anyway. The shift is probably random.
|
There are no Atlanian words because there was no Atlantis. And even
if there was, they wouldn't have been Indo-European. Since genetic
studies repeatedly show that Britain was NOT invaded by
"foreigners" (at least, in a genetic sense), the rest of your post is
nonsense. |
|
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Michael Urban
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: Re: The earth according to Norse cosmology |
|
|
Just out of curiosity, Aggie - are there _any_ authorities, experts,
scholars, historians, linguists, or antiquarians of the past 300
years that you consider accurate, authorititative, or citeable in
any way? I note that when it has suited your purposes, you have
quoted Wikipedia, and on other occasions have derided it as worthless.
You have also cited Michael Wood for a claim about Shakespeare's
early life, ignoring the fact that Wood's own words make clear that
this claim is mere speculation. You refer to 'Grimm's Law' when
it makes you sound learned, but consider Grimm himself to know
nothing about the etymologies of words; and have recently told us
that Grimm's Law is applied at random, following no rule (a strange
law, that).
So, who can you recommend as someone writing in the past 300 years
whose work you consider reliable on these matters? |
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